[ClutchFans] The Rockets should trade Jae’Sean Tate

People are ignoring team dynamics and undervalue winning traits and intangibles. Instead they opt for flashy dunks and big blocks on Boban.

 

Martin isn't the player to compare. Martin/Tate at like 4 million for the year is awesome. It's Nwaba, the clearly inferior 3rd string player with a contract higher than both Martin/Tate combined that is the problem. THAT'S who you try to trade.

 

Doesn’t this belong in the random trade idea thread?

 

i guess I’m confused. Am I missing something here? Nwaba’s contract he signed had a team option for 23-24. The Rockets haven’t picked up that option. He will be a restricted FA in 23 if not picked up and he was signed under bird rights. My point was all these fans wanting KMJ to start when he just isn’t that good.

 

I see no reason to trade Tate if we can extend him on a good deal unless Stone is sure he can draft another Sengun type steal in pick 10s.

 

Haha - the current iteration of league worst Rockets is hardly suffering for "emotionally invested" players.

Some of them are so invested that they leave at halftime!

 

Hardly the priority. Trading Wood is the priority I would assume since he is the better player and the Rockets could get some value back. I disagree with most on this thread and think Tate’s contribution to this team is invaluable. Moving him is probably low hanging fruit and not Houston’s priority. He has a year left as team prob will pick up his option and they would be wise to evaluate him on this last year.

Im no contract expert but I believe the Rockets would have his bird rights. And what proportional value would the Rockets expect to get back? Tate isn’t an all star. He isn’t commanding a max contract. He isn’t commanding Terry Rozier money even. Not sure why this is even a topic when we have his bird rights plus another year to evaluate him.

Who knows he might shoot 35% from 3 or better. He may polish up his game and not rush and look at the floor clearer. No point in trading a 2 way player with elite defense who is improving not yet in his prime making less than 2 mil a year who is eligible for bird rights with likely no proportional trade return.

 

I got your point. You took what I said as some sort of comparison against Martin because you don't like Martin but don't have the imagination to hash it out. I don't really agree, and responded by saying Nwaba is the one who can get traded because he's clearly the inferior player of the group and also the most highly rewarded. Then you said this.

All caught up?

 

Lol “don’t have the imagination?” You are misattributing. I didn’t mistake you for saying anything. I agreed with your point on Tate being a good player and shouldn’t be traded and just commented on most of the people on this thread who devalues team dynamic while opting for Martin, which is a fact. You made it about you. Has nothing to do with you. Not about you lol.

 

Good points brother , however I feel like his contract will be bothersome for a “hustle guy”. We will soon have the ability to free up two max contracts we have to be intentional on how we spend for quality role players.

 

He has bird rights meaning it doesn’t count against the cap.

 

I think there are a few other Rockets I would want to trade first, but Tate might be the price to get off of some of the vets.

 

Tate being the player in the league tied for 5+ fouls in a game does not deter me from him being a great player. As far as I'm concerned, it's just something he needs to work on. That simple. Or it could be he is the guy who makes smart fouls. Not all fouls are bad fouls. End of game fouls to put someone on the line is a smart foul, fouling a guy when he's about to go dunk it is a smart foul (considering he doesn't actually score). Again, not all fouls are bad.

 

why trade? Bird rights. Plus another year to evaluate. Minimum money. Good 2 way playee and work ethic. Whats the rush or reason? Unnecessary really

 

I like Tate’s hustle and as a pretty good bench player. Claims that he is elite defensively are overrating his ability in that area. He is a poor defensive rebounder and he cannot guard 4’s and 5’s with length. He can be an elite defender on SFs, but he is not a good enough offensive player to play that position 30 mins a game for a contender. If we can use him paired with other veterans and the 17th pick or even next year’s 2023 frp (protected 1-5) to move up in this draft to get an Eason, Murray, or Sharpe you absolutely should do it or even trade for Myles Turner or Grant. If you somehow could get Jabari and Grant we wouldn’t just be competing for play-in next year, we would be competing for the playoffs. KPJ, Green, Jabari, Grant, Sengun. Bench Nix, Jaygup, Garuba, Fernandez, KJM, Queen. Actually in this scenario you could probably convince Wall to come off the bench instead of Nix.

 

One of the reasons I like Clutch so much is that he always comes straight forward with his thoughts. They are always well thought out. And most importantly, he doesn’t seem to be affected by what people will think. It’s always fair, and he’s very considerate of the fact that players are people, but he’s straight up unvarnished. He’s a fan, not an apologist, or someone trying to suck up to the team. You always know you are getting an unpolluted perspective.

this article is a good example of that. I think he lays it out very well. I did chuckle thinking of what Stone’s reaction might be to the quick assumption at the beginning that Wood and Gordon are as good as gone. I truly hope Stone understands the importance of moving on from those guys but part of me isn’t completely sure Wood won’t be on the roster at the start of the season.

anyway, great piece. Keep em coming Clutch!

 

On Tate clutch makes the right point about not building around role players. What I think is a little more nuanced is to acknowledge that Tate is a role player on the court but not in the locker room. He’s a leader of the locker room and I imagine he’s an incredibly positive influence (good work habits) on our young guys. So it makes it tougher to move on from him because it’s not just about what he means on the court.

that said, this a good problem to have. If Tate can net u something meaningful like helping you trade up in the draft for a core building block, or a future pick, or for a much better player as part of a package, you make that move. If nothing like that materializes, u let him play out the last year of his deal coming off the bench behind KJ and you get his leadership for another year.

It’s not the end of the world to lose an asset for nothing, but I bet there’s more than one team out there who will give us something valuable for Tate and Tate will end up in a better situation. Win win.

 

I think KMJ and Tate are in the same tier. Neither should be starting or playing more than 20 mins. If we get Jabari or Chet and stick at the 17th pick, we should go with the three headed monster of KPJ, Green, and Jaygup. If we stay at 17, it is doubtful we will get an impact player this year, but maybe somebody that can grow into a significant role at some time. It would not surprise me at all to see Wood still in the starting line-up. It could very well be KPJ, Jalen, Jabari or Chet, Wood, and Sengun. It might even work. That’s a lot of outside shooters, especially if Sengun gets to a reasonable level.

 

So I think Tate played OK this season. Compare to last year, it could be said that he plateau somewhat or even slid (depending on who you talk to)

When Rockets re-evaluate, my hope is that they pick aside the reasons: a weakness that is intrinsic (Tate's weakness) vs. situational differences.

So an example

Intrinsic: the biggest knock here is Tate didn't seem to improve his outside shot. This was something that he was supposed to work on last summer. Maybe he did put in the effort, but on the court, we're seeing this as a big liability. The two big line up at the beginning of the season was partly also due to Tate being on the court as a non shooter. This year opponent teams out right sags off Tate, which makes it harder on his teammates. As much as Garrison struggled 2nd half of the year, his man still chases him around the court.

Now for some of the situational reasons to defend Tate somewhat.

Fairness (shoes on the other foot) - Even though Tate hurting the offense a bit is a legit reason, let's not pretend the other guys on the team are perfect angels on defense. Yes they may have to work harder on offense but isn't this a reason why we hired a supposed offensive guru?

The fairness is that Tate has more than helped / covered up for his teammates for their bad defense. To name a few, first half season, opponents were trying to see if they can hunt 'skinny' Jalen Green in iso post ups. I remember as soon as they did that, Tate would run up and switch spots for Jalen to get that assignment. (this was clearly a coaching strategy). The other one is well known, when Wood is being placed on the perimeter for some possession, Tate is still being asked to cover Wood's guy. Tate risks getting fouls, while Wood could stay on the court longer. These kind of sacrifices are not on the box scores.

Defending other team's best guy - So Tate gets the toughest assignment. Who's going to do that when he leaves. Is that a KJ, a drafted Jabari, or someone else. If it's a defense by committee, can everyone on this team from KPJ/Green/Sengun/KJ all step up more on defense?

Tunnel vision and lack of passing. The passing has gone down. On the surface level doesn't look great, but this is because team is test driving KPJ as PG (1st unit) and Sengun passing (2nd unit). Tate isn't asked to do it as much. It's more situational shift than him being selfish. Maybe self-less even, since he's getting less touches. We also don't hear him complaining in post game conferences or social media.

Among his peers - Small sample sure, in the Rising stars game, many of us thought Tate should have gotten the MVP (instead of Cade). It's one thing when we "homers" say it, but it's another when fans of other teams say it. He impressed the league

Contract - This might be the toughest. Whether you think high or mid on Tate, he still out-plays his contract (even this year).

2021-22 - 1.5 mil
2022-23 - 1.78 mil
2023-24 - qualifying offer 2.2 mil / Restricted free agent.

This isn't me arguing against trading Tate, might even be the opposite because Tate (as a player) and his contract is attractive. Yes 'contenders' want him, but I'd expand the scope to 7th-10th spot teams, --the fringe play-in teams. Tate can raise the floor on those squads. In fact we've seen with the coaches fired on the difference of making or failing a play-in tournament. Tate making winning plays at those one or two games, could be the difference of saving a head coach's job.

So back to the contract and trade value. What do we get in return? This is why Stone gets paid the big bucks.


Conclusion: I would hate to see Tate go, but I can understand it. Part of me being unsure is that it seems the team still doesn't know its offensive and defensive identity. Or maybe Silas knows, but that identity hasn't translated to the fans and certainly not in the W-L's columns.

So then you ask yourself, if you don't know who you are, how do you know a guy like Tate doesn't fit.​

I re-iterate, I can understand the trade talks and if it happens, I'm OK with it. We just have to get the right stuff in return.


p.s. You know in the future when we play his future team. He's probably gonna lock us up.

 

Early this season I was wondering if we might have been able to garner any interest from GSW in a Tate for Wiseman deal. Wiseman seems like he's a ways away from being a contributor on a winner, but he has a huge contract and the Warriors have a massive payroll. It would have been really early for them to give up on a #2 pick so they probably wouldn't have done it, but I thought it would have made sense for them.