But is he ELITE in any of those areas? In any event, I hope Banchero IS rated #1. This would give Rockets more options.
How do you measure his efficiency in this area to argue that Banchero is ELITE? Chet and even other top 10 players in this draft (not just 4/5) absolutely destroy him in advanced stats for offensive efficiency (see link below comparing TS%, EFG%, 3P%, PER, WS, ORTG, FT%, etc.). Banchero is neither an elite playmaker nor scorer. And we all know he is not even close to a good defender, never mind elite. https://www.tankathon.com/players/c...n--chet-holmgren--keegan-murray--jabari-smith
I didn't say playmaker, I didn't say shot maker. I said shot creator. This is mostly off of the eye test. He demands respect and has the ability to create his own shot which causes defenders to key in on him. I believe this elite skill more easily translates to the NBA than many other skills including shooting which requires the shooter to take a further shot. The NBA's space will allow Paolo to force defenders to choose between letting him get his own or letting him create for others. He's a very heliocentric player that wasn't used as such. I do believe he can be a part time primary playmaker at some point in his career due to the combo of his elite handles, high IQ and ability to get his own. This is all a projection and not a guarantee. I believe he is an elite shot creator. He's 6-11 with a 7-1 wingspan. His skill set and size combination is not normal. I wouldn't write him off. I have him at second over Jabari now.
Both Chet and Jabari are 2 way players. An argument can be made that Ivey is a 2 way player as well. Banchero is NOT a 2 way player. The "3" in 3-D player refers to offense, specifically shooting the 3ball. The "D" refers to defense. Making an impact on both offense AND defense is literally the definition of 2 way player.
No one denies that he is a good playmaker or shot creator (your preferred term) for his size. We are arguing if he is ELITE shot creator. Lebron is ELITE. Jokic is ELITE. Harden is ELITE. Banchero is not elite. At least he's not yet. And FYI - no site lists Banchero as 6'11. He is 6'9 or 6'10.
Yes, Chet is elite defensively. BLK% bear that out. And Jabari is elite jump shooter - 3ball shooter. Jabari can get his shot off even on tight closeouts and minimal airspace.
I do not disagree. I think Ivey certainly has the tools and disposition to be an excellent NBA defender. Was only referencing his defense in college. He can go from lock down in some games to disinterest in others. Commitment and/or IQ on that side of ball maybe all it takes. Just have not seen that consistent dog on defense mentality yet.
Jabari's shooting averages went down a tad as the year went on. He has some huge games that seem to raise his #s, but remember, these guys only play 30 or so games. I'm scared of declaring any of these guys as elite or bad at shooting. that's a stat with a lot of variability in most cases. Being ELITE at it would require a long history of doing it. Jabari shooting 80% at the FT line is comforting and gives some creedence to Jabari being a good shooter. But I am a tiny bit concerned he's not as elite as a shooter from deep he appeared to be at one point. Look at Paolo, he was awful (under 30%) and finished the season shooting something like 44% over his last 10 games or so to raise his averages to nearly 34% which would be respectable at the NBA level as rookie (but once again, the shot isn't the same it's further). Jabari will need to show a lot of improvement on his handles in workouts to find himself as the #1 pick in my opinion. His tape will be the easiest to nitpick of the top 4 guys. I find myself getting lower and lower on him as I watch the others and get higher on them. His handle is just so far behind where I thought it was when I watched his games live. It's going to be something that has to get fixed or he will be stuck as a specialist. I know he was able to get shots off with little space. That's a great thing, but guys in the NBA aren't going to be teaching science next year. You have to think what translates the most, I hope that skill does, but without a handle, I can't see defenders giving him an inch of space. I have Chet as a clear first pick here but would be thrilled with any of the top 3 bigs. I'm not as sold on Ivey as most and just don't like the long term fit with Jalen who I see as a clear pillar of this franchise going forward. I also don't love Paolo's fit on paper with this team as is. Drafting for fit is stupid though. OKC would have passed on Russ for Brook Lopez if they went on fit and they would have passed on Harden because of fit. Instead they took BPA and figured it out. Philly took Embiid despite being hurt and despite just drafting Noel because they thought Embiid was BPA. Take the BPA and figure it out later.
Both Chet and Jabari take pride in their defense (and offense) and play with a huge chip on their shoulder. They play much tougher than their size indicates. They are also both fanatics about improving their games. And if Chet/Jabari do not have mamba mentality, then Jalen Green certainly does not have it either. Mamba mentality is just vague Kobe speak anyway for guys who are willing to do anything to win, on both offense and defense.
I’m excited to be on the same page as you this year!!! Lol. though ultimately I guess everyone was right about last year… except Jalen Suggs fans.
Even Lebron doesn't average 25-10-5. People pulling out crazy numbers from orifices without any sense of historical context.
I thought I watched every Duke game this season. Please name the game that Banchero locked it up 1-5. Thanks.
lol. Off the top of my head only Jokic and Giannis average that this year, though Embiid is close. I mean I’ll root very hard for Paolo if he’s the pick but he’s just as likely / way more likely to be Tobias Harris or at best Blake Griffin as he is to be Giannis-esque even just focusing on offense. also the idea that Chet was only good defensively because of his blocks/block % was crazy. He switches on the perimeter extremely well is incredibly smart and in college at least **** down the lane. There’s a reason his DRtg and DBPM are as high as you’ll see for any college player ever (AD is one of the only other ones up there with him). 1a - Chet 1b - Jabari after … I’d take Paolo or let Stone figure it out would even consider trading down. Paolo/Sengun is not going to win you tons of playoff series. The interior defense just isn’t good enough. Sengun is incredibly savvy and a much better defender than anyone thought possible… but his limitations are clear. now if they work him out and REALLY think he can be a hybrid 3/4 I’d be willing to experiment. But ultimately they will need a real defensive presence at the 5/4… or a legit Draymond esque front court defender. Again, Sengun is great and more than holds his own as a 19 yo and will get better but you absolutely can not pair him next to an average big defender and expect to be top 10 much less top 5 defensively in the future. Evan Mobley is the bomb defensively and without Allen the Cavs defense tanked.
There isn't a concrete definition of a two way player. Lots of players, including 3 and D players, make an impact on both ends of the floor. When people talk about two way players they often refer to guys playing at a high or elite level on both ends of the floor, like Kawhi Leonard or Giannis. They aren't necessarily talking about someone like Mikal Bridges. But again, there's no hard definition. Some people might consider Myles Turner or Lonzo Ball two way players. In any case, being a two way player doesn't make make a player automatically more valuable than a player that's stronger on one end. I'm a Chet #1 guy myself, but whether he or Jabari can play offensively at a high level in the NBA is a huge question mark. Chet and finish and shoot, but he wasn't a consistent go to guy at Gonzaga. Jabari was that go to guy, but really struggled handling the ball and getting to the rim. Paolo has far fewer questions. People act like he isn't elite at anything, but his stats are very similar to fellow Dukies Jayson Tatum and Brandon Ingram. Being able to score, handle the ball, and pass at their size alone makes them elite.
Duke Digest (@DukeDigest) Tweeted: This is incredible defense from Paolo in the last two minutes. Huge reason why Duke won this game. https://t.co/nDICdcx8mB Itamar (@Itamar_17_10) Tweeted: THIS IS THE HELP DEFENSE I WANT TO SEE FROM PAOLO BANCHERO!!! https://t.co/HCsgz8acqA BlueDevilStop (@BlueDevilStop) Tweeted: Paolo Banchero’s defense was absolutely sensational last night. Routinely won the battle when switched onto Miami’s talented guards. Someone his size shouldn’t be able to do this. https://t.co/8dYALUljuZ you’re welcome!
Easy to see him taking KPJ's starting spot, although either one would be fine as 6th man starting the year. Long term, Ivey/Green would be the starting backcourt.
I don’t see it, but If that’s how you project Ivey that’s totally fine. I don’t view Ivey as a huge upgrade over KPJ. Ivey still has to prove he can get his shot and defend at the next level. It’s hoping that he reaches his best version somewhere down the line. I like the 16/6/4 we got from KPJ this year, the awesome chemistry with Jalen and plenty of room for growth.
