Psaki Says "Gender Affirming Care" for Kids Is 'Best Practice'

I agree, I wish we were in a position to focus on those things, but unfortunately we are not. We are fighting to save democracy.

But unless the lunatics on the left start jeopardizing the certainty of the empire, it just roll eyes at the silliness.

 

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There is some truth that the increase of people coming out is due to cultural factors. I think feeling more accepted by the American culture gives more gays the courage to come out. I do not believe it is because they were groomed.

Yes, I do believe they are born that way. That is where we differ most. Nobody in their right mind would choose to be gay and treated with hate and rejection by thousands. Why do you think so many have stayed in the closet for centuries? In some countries they are killed. In this country they were discriminated against for years. They still are! There are ways around the laws for bigots and people with hate for gays to discriminate. They use them. There isn't enough help and support for these kids and teens from our government to our churches to the parents themselves.

Do you believe a gay man is a pedophile and groomer more than a heterosexual man?

 

Maybe, doesn't make it wrong though. Also, why would they still identify at 40 years old then? It's not like someone that says they are bisexual or asexual drops these identifiers as they age. They usually stick to them. Why is that?

Yes, it is the same. The only difference is that people in Afghanistan won't identify as being gay because it could literally get them killed. Therefore, the number seems smaller but it isn't. The difference is that here you can come out proudly and celebrate being gay and you can't there...although I know people wish for that to change and think that if you keep them in the closet the less gay people there are. All that happens is the more closeted gay people you have. that's it.

How do I know this? Again, it's based on that you can't teach people to be gay or lesbian or whatever. This is just as impossible as it is to teach someone to be straight.

Lol, no? I just thought it was unfair how you assumed I would defend that and so assumed that you would one day defend the further snatching of rights from the gay community.

We'll see your reaction I guess. I predict it'll be happening because you've turned a completely blind eye to the groups that pushed and supported this bill and bills like this and their goals are quite clear about this stuff. I doubt they will be stopping...so we'll see where you actually draw the line.

Because your claim is that they are sexually grooming children which is illegal

The middle ground isn't putting gay teachers in the closet. This isn't only about teaching. This is also about a gay teacher having to avoid revealing their identity...that a straight teacher can talk about their husband, bring their husband to school, while a lesbian teacher can't do the same because they fear they might be reported...which again, already happened. You really do underestimate the goals and intentions of groups behind this bill.

My empathy was that you can tell your little boy it's not okay to wear dresses but you don't get to tell every other little boy that.

My empathy is saying you can teach your children your crazy religious rules but don't expect to force other children to even acknowledge these rules exist. That's my empathy. That's where it ends. When you try to force what you feel is or isn't normal on everyone else's kids is where my empathy for those parents end.

Again, what you feel isn't normal or right, that's your right...but getting mad that a teacher is trying to teach tolerance for a boy that wears dresses is wrong. Because what happens when a little boy comes to school and wears dresses? You can't then say "Well I oppose bullying..." but then ignore when a teacher tried to get out ahead of that bullying before it started.

 

There isn't a law that says that they can't discuss their feelings with teachers and counselors. You don't have to mention sexual orientation or gender identity to get the point across that bullying of any form is wrong. Even if a teacher does state that it's wrong to bully a student because they are gay or trans or whatever I don't see how they would be breaking that law so long as sexual orientation or gender identity is not the focus of the lesson.

 

Again I don't see it. And I've yet to see anyone define what is LGBT Grooming.

I asked this before but haven't gotten a clear answer. Do you believe that teachers are actually trying to make children gay or trans?

No one is saying that people should remove limbs but teaching people to empathize with someone who has lost a limb and not making fun of them or scared of them would be a good lesson. A good way to teach that to children would be to pretend they don't have a particular limb so they can appreciate why they should empathize. It seems like you would consider that as advocating removing a limb.

For one to truly empathize you would have to be able to experience at least a proximation of what they go through. That's the difference between "empathy" and "sympathy". I know some med schools do exercises where med students try to approximate the experience of what it's like to old and enfeebled. In which case they are in wheel chairs have their movements restricted and even wear goggles with vaseline on them to approximate poor eyesight. The idea there is that if they are going into gerontology they don't just intellectually understand the difficulties that elderly face but actually experience something like it.

That said I find it telling that you are likening these type of exercises to understand what it might be like to be gay or trans as "intentionally hurting yourself".

 

Wait, I don't think the increase of young people identifying as LGBT has much to do with teachers grooming, IMO, it's mostly cultural. These types of laws will slow it down a little, maybe, but what is influencing all people today more than anything else is social media. Kids in particular care more about that then what their dumb parents or teachers think.

Yes. I don't believe the increase is 100% organic.

 

If the questions and help sought is for those exact issues then yes, it is against the law to discuss them with the child or the class.

 

So if a gay person told you they had those feelings from a young age, and were raised by strict Christian parents you wouldn't believe them? You hear those stories all the time.

What you fail to admit is that thousands were forced in the closet for many reasons which only now are beginning to be accepted. That makes a huge difference in the increase of numbers of people coming out, just in the military alone. Gay bashing used to be a big thing in Houston when I was a teenager. Luring gays at clubs then attacking them. That's pretty sick and disturbing.

There are still so many afraid to come out, especially in sports, or in families where parents believe like you. I find that very sad and disturbing. Remember the kids bullies used to call sissy? You don't think they were born different?

 

You'll have to quote the part of the law that applies here. Someone quoted part of it and I don't see how it applies.

 

Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through [third grade]”

It explicitly states that parents “may bring an action against a school district to obtain a declaratory judgement” and a court may award damages and attorney’s fees if it finds that a school violated the measure.

The law also requires parents to be the first to be notified of any health or support services offered to their kids in school and allows them the chance to deny those services on behalf of their children.

It undermines LGBTQ support in schools and includes vague parental notification requirements, which could effectively require teachers to 'out' LGBTQ students to their legal guardians without their consent, regardless of whether they are supportive.

So, if a child has parents who believe gays are immoral, sick, and going to hell that poor kid can't seek help from a school counselor without them asking the parents for permission. It's a double edged sword.

 

So you don't believe that teachers actions are actually making children LGBT and that they don't care that much what their teachers think. Is it really necessary then to have this law if at most it just slows things down a little bit?

 

Look, the increase that has been on my mind here is recent. The young people involved in it, are not yet adults, at least most of them.

I think the percent of youth today that identify as LGBT is between 15 and 20, that's double or more than the estimates of 8 to 10 percent that we have all probably seen over the years. Do you really believe all of those young people were born wired to be LGBT? 1 in 8 to 1 in 5? I just think back at my HS graduating class of 1999 and I'm like there's no way there were around 100 LGBT folks there.

What is there to teach? Look, at the end of the day, this bill will do little to stem the tide because the biggest factor in this increase is by far social media. This is why girls are the ones who are seeing the biggest increase in LGBT+ identification since they are the ones on social media the most. But, I do agree that it is appropriate to control the type of lessons kids who don't typically have access to a smartphone receive.

Yeah, I was only half-serious there.

My claim is that what some teachers are doing is LGBT grooming which was not illegal.

This bill doesn't put gay teachers in the closet. The gay teacher in the article had all sorts of LGBT stuff in his room and he still received his school's support after parents complained about him. He quit anyway. The lesbian teacher had nothing done against her. What she was talking about was what could happen and she was already frustrated with teaching to begin with.

I think parents would prefer teachers not to comment on boys wearing dresses at all. That's what the law would accomplish.

That's not what empathy is. Parents would prefer those subjects are left out of school curriculum and instruction.

I think a teacher could talk about bullying and mention LGBT issues as something you don't bully anyone for along with the normal stuff like looks, weight, personality, or whatever else kids bully each other about, and not get arrested or fired over it.

 

Talking about an LGBT issue with a teacher or counselor is not classroom instruction, therefore it is not against the law.

I agree that parents need to be the first notified if their kids are receiving literally any type of extra health or support services; especially services related to LGBT issues.

You don't think parents need to be notified? That's messed up. It should definitely be illegal to keep that information from parents. Things like that closet that the teacher set up in his classroom for students go in and transform needs to be illegal, too.

You never know what reaction a parent would have. They just have to know.

 

I said teacher grooming didn't have much to do with the increase in young people identifying as LGBT, not that it didn't have anything to do with it. I also didn't say kids don't care what their teachers think, I said they care more about social media than what their teachers and parents think. In the end, social media is the #1 factor in the increase by a mile and these types of laws won't do too much, but that doesn't mean you don't make the effort. You never know if that effort would stop something worse from happening.

 

I am done discussing this with you. You don't see things like I do, or the 62% of Americans who disagree with this government mandated law. You also have far different beliefs about gays than I do, so there is no point in continuing this discussion.

I don't think like those parents who believe they are helping their child by taking them to some wacked out conversion therapy treatment or outrageous attempt to turn them into something they aren't. I don't believe social media turns someone gay any more than I believe social media turns anyone straight. I don't believe kids are groomed to be gay.

I don't think like the 25% of parents who outright reject their kids for being gay and screw with their mind or shove them out the door into danger and homelessness.

I will never understand how anyone could do that to their flesh and blood because of who they are attracted to or who they love. I don't understand the mentality of people who claim being gay is a choice.

You can push your beliefs about gays onto someone else, but I've heard enough already. If you or that other guy start tagging me to bait me into a debate then I will not respond. I've shared my viewpoints enough.

 

The numbers were never honest until recently because only until recently...very recently, remember, anti-gay sentiment was so popular that obam was against gay marriage...VERY recently, being gay was stigmatized and frowned upon.

So the numbers you are referring to were never representative, up until VERY VERY recently being gay has been a bad thing.

Also, the changing of language and terms is relevant here. No matter what you can't teach a sexual preference for males or females or whatever...but how people call themselves, that has changed. Just like you wouldn't call someone a hippie now, you'd call them some other term, but people that care about the climate and hare anti-war still exist just under different terms. Then, there wasn't a term for some of these sexualities, now there is, so now there is a box, as we can say, for themselves to go into where there wasn't before.

If Afghanistan up and said they love gay people and support them, their number of gay people would rise dramatically too, because people feel safe saying "This is what I am."

If a teacher is scared of coming out that is being put in the closet. As @deb4rockets mentioned, the bill clearly states that parents may take action for this kins of thing. Now, the one teacher that is being referred to was lucky that his school backed him up, what happens when a school doesn't or when these groups like Moms 4 Liberty get more aggressive about this? I think we'll find out soon...

Ok, I will propose a scenario for you. I hope you answer it.

What do you do if a boy under 10 or so walks in with a frilly pink dress? What do you do if some kids make fun of him? How would you address this?

Sure it is, I'm empathetic to their desire to indoctrinate their kid into whatever beliefs they feel necessary. I am not empathetic in their desire to indoctrinate other kids into their beliefs.

But the law as written seems to disagree that you can do this. You can't bring up these issues at all. It bans instruction AND discussion about these topics.

But I wonder what will happen if a boy walks into a class with a frilly pink dress, I do wonder how this situation plays out in a world where you prefer no books about the subject or that it can't be talked about.

 

Also @JumpMan , I think we've got about enough out of this discussion and will just say the same things from now on but worded differently, clearly there will be strong disagreements there but if you do respond I do hope you reply with that scenario I presented.

What does a teacher do when a little boy walks in the class wearing a dress? What happens when other kids point this out, make it a big deal, or make fun of it?? I feel like this bill will make these discussions pretty difficult to navigate around while if the students had read a book about boys wearing dresses they might not think anything of it and move on.