Psaki Says "Gender Affirming Care" for Kids Is 'Best Practice'

It "discriminates" against certain lessons up until certain ages. The Florida governor could be the one teaching it, it still wouldn't be allowed. Also, according to fchowd, I could actually be a part of the LGBT+ community.

 

But it is a scientific subject, it's discussed in several disciplines of sciencem in fact. The fact is, people are not just straight and sexuality in itself is a lot more fluid and people are finding themselves on this spectrum and using these labels or terms to further define themselves. You can keep saying that children aren't critical thinkers but what is your explanation as to why they would continue to define themselves as such when they are 20 years old?

I mean...that's irrelevant to me. A gay dude will be a gay dude no matter what term he uses to call himself. My guess is that gay dude, because he's a gay dude, will be more empathetic for causes of people that are also gay. So I think you are just out and out wrong here. Teachers are not making kids gay, lesbian, whatever. These kids are ALREADY this way, they are already wired to be this way, but now they are learning that there are other people out there that are like them and connecting. Teachers don't have any effect on the number of gay people in the world. If they did, you'd see 0 or close to 0 gay people in Muslim countries...but we know this doesn't happen...because it's not something teachers control.

People are only identifying as LGBT+ because they are and teachers are saying it's okay to be this way.

And I predict there will be a time where you defend more LGBTQ+ rights being taken away but that's for another day.

Not everyone agrees that black people are equal to others? So what? The question is what kind of country do we want to be? One that teaches tolerance and respect for all people or one that stigmatizes groups of people because they are not 'normal'.

It's fine if you, as a parent, feel the book is inappropriate for you...what I dislike is you or others telling me it's inappropriate for other children. Which is in turn shaming those other children because it's not 'normal'.

Depending on normalcy is a TERRIBLE way to set morals btw. In some countries absolutely abhorrent things are 'normal' and years ago treating people as subhuman was also 'normal'. We, as people in the year 2022, have to look at things rationally and logically and not just default to 'whatever is normal is right'. It's a big and easy logical fallacy that could be torn to shreds because it's easy to list things that were once normal and now thankfully aren't anymore.

Convict? Making this about conviction only is a way to ignore away the stories I mentioned right above about gay teachers literally quitting their jobs because of this bill.

You mentioned in this thread that "Groomers are not just going to come out and say they are groomers" I agree. This is also true for those that are anti-LGBTQ+, they will never come out and say "I hate gay people." that's never how this works. Optics is always a keyword for various hate groups because they hope to fool naive and sometimes people who mean well and are just uncomfortable with the world-changing into following along as they boil the frog and move to take away more rights and further discriminate.

Wasn't the point. The point was that these bills are hardly ever written explicitly with big lettering highlighting their hate. The GI bill was an example of a bill that wasn't written to discriminate against black people but written for it to be allowed, just like this bill was written. The results matter and the results already has the LGBTQ+ community up and arms and already has gay teachers fleeing their jobs. Already those are the results.

I think it's a pretty big mistake to just go by convictions and quite hypocritical, where are the convictions of LGBQT+ teachers that were supposedly grooming all these years? Why do you only care about convictions now? I think it's an attempt to move the goal post and ignore the intimidation and bullying that is now encouraged by this bill.

That's the whole point of the bill which is why it is written vaguely, just like the abortion one here in Texas, to embolden citizens to harass LGBTQ+ people and intimidate them.

Again, I'll point to the bills and laws and ordinances written during the Jim Crow laws. A lot of them were similar. The easiest way to see how something is affecting a community is by seeing how a community reacts to it. The LGBTQ+ community HATES this bill. Nationally. In Florida. By and large they are saying this bill hurts them. This is where empathy comes in and you listen to their concerns.

You can say "I don't care, I'm not comparing it..." but again, when the black community complained about the various laws in the past 100 years they always...ALWAYS proved to be right. It goes to show lived experience means something and that it's usually wise to listen instead of ignoring their experiences.

 

It legislates any discussion of sexual orientation. So any student that asks about gay people, or about a gay teacher's spouse is opening that teach up for discipline by the school district (including dismissal). Note that any discussion or questions abut a same sex teacher's spouse would not be risking that teacher.

The vagueness of the law even allows this law to apply to any age student or grade since it does not specify what is "age appropriate" or "developmentally appropriate":

 

So you agree... trump-lite.

 

I am completely lost on what your point is at this point.

I explained to you why as you said, there are more gay people now. It's not that there are more, it's because thousands more feel more comfortable with coming out than 50 years ago. It's not because they are being groomed. That is so ridiculous.

 

Not true.

I am sympathetic to the abortion argument and the gun rights argument, heck even your lock down arguments.

Its the whole blatant corruption and overthrow the government thing that just really rubs me the wrong way, you know?

 

If the party of Trump defends and echoes his propaganda and lies then yes, it makes them as bad as him. If someone kills a person in an armed robbery, the getaway driver faces murder charges too. They aided and abetted the crime.

The GOP did that with Trump abetting him, echoing his lies, and inciting the propaganda and fear mongering. The ones who finally had enough and spoke out are being blackballed by Trump and the rest of the party. They are the only ones with an ounce of truth and courage left in their body.

This is why I said anyone in the GOP who kissed his butt like Cruz, DeSantis, Abbott, Paxton, etc....are one in the same. They can't fiddle a different tune now. If you believe in DeSantis you believe in a guy just as bad as Trump because he helped him do horrible things by supporting them.

 

That's simply not true. This is a thread about a bill 62% of Americans disagree with. Many things said about the harm it can cause are true. Did you read my excerpts from the article on homelessness? If not, I suggest you do. The harm is real, and far too many lives are destroyed over pure hate and ignorance instead of acceptance.

Have you ever seen how the GOP party demonizes people who disagree with them? They call them pedophiles and worse. It's disgusting to see the name calling coming from the party towards anyone who disagrees with them. It started with Trump, and spread like wildfire within the party. Just look at the name calling on their tweets. It's disgusting and childish.

 

The obvious issue here is that you keep referring to this group called "leftists", which essentially paints you as anti "leftist" or a person who is "rightist".

Seeing as how the "rightist" are not a viable political party anymore, and more akin to a terrorist organization, you are obviously going to see push back when you frame your language that way.

You change your threads from "Leftists failed the children" to "We have failed the children", then 99% of the conflict in your threads will dissapear.

That is on you for taking the conflict approach, and not the problem solving approach. So please spare us your pleas for sympathy of being called a Nazi....you invited it and it seems to be your intention.

 

It's tough to find a branch of science where something is as fluid and based on self-identified feelings as this is. There is the autism spectrum, but people don't self-identify there. There is a color spectrum, but colors don't identify themselves.

Children aren't good at critical thinking, even when they're 20 years old.

So, would you say that the percentage of wired LGBT+ people is the same in the US as it is in Middle East countries? The same today as it was in the 90s? If they are equal, then I would believe that the increase in people identifying as LGBT+ today is totally organic. I don't think it is.

Did you just admit you will one day defend pedophile grooming?

People being upset and teachers quitting isn't convincing enough for me. If teachers start losing jobs and getting prosecuted for telling their students that they're gay, then I'll take these types of fears seriously.

It was never illegal to teach about sexual orientation or gender identity to kids in grades K-3 so why would there be prior convictions?

Or where compassion comes in and you tell them that you understand, that you'll have their back if simply existing is a problem for others, that they could still teach in Florida despite being LGBT+, that if they really want to teach about sexual orientation or gender identity they have options in the state of Florida like moving up to a higher grade level, and that you have to take into consideration the beliefs of parents, even if you disagree with them, and find a middle-ground everyone could be happy or unhappy with.

For all the empathy you guys talk about, you really don't care about the side of people that support these types of bills.

 

What about the kids themselves? Do you agree that it should be law that they can't discuss their feelings with teachers and counselors? Can only straight kids discuss straight problems and seek help from counselors? Can teachers not discuss the subject in anti-bullying lessons to help these kids in school? What is wrong with that?

What if they can't discuss them with parents? Rejection, being made to feel unwanted or outcast, with no help to support them can lead to terrible things. Did you read my article on homelessness?

 

I was aware of that explanation, I even mentioned it in the post you quoted. My point is that there are estimated percentages of LGBT+ people out there, regardless of whether they admit it or not, that were derived using scientific methods that are now invalid because young people are identifying at rates much higher than what was estimated. I don't believe anything scientific, like biology or "wiring", explains that increase. I believe the increase is due to cultural factors. You probably believe that the percentage of LGBT people born that way, wired that way has remained the same over the years?

 

And that is why you will continue to struggle in your political discourse.

Maybe its because you live in another country and don't understand how divided the country is, but at this point there are two sides. You are either pro democracy or you are not. When you attack the pro democracy party you are going to get lumped in with the Maga cultist, right or wrong. Sorry, thats just the way the country is right now.

 

One of the reasons public school exists is ideological indoctrination. Do you think China, Russia and the USA teach civics and economics the same way. Beyond that purpose, the classroom is now a battleground of the culture war.

The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next. - Abraham Lincoln



The grooming thing seems like the latest satanic panic.

 

First, again, you are complaining that I am being intolerant of a politician that is being intolerant to gay people. I am not the one invoking laws that discriminate against anyone... he is. And he has expressed intolerant and discriminatory laws before. In fact, I am not sure there is any statement by trump that desantis has disagreed with, or any political position that trump has taken that desantis has opposed.

If trump does run in 2024 he will be the republican nominee. If trump doesn't run, then desantis will attract the trump voters. The other republican you named (Romney) isn't anything like trump nor desantis.