Is Ivey a scoring combo guard that needs the ball in his hands? If the answer is yes then the answer to your question is no. Scoring guard duos don’t usually work out. This was mentioned in one of the other posts and why KPJ JG isn’t working. It’s why Hield and Fox didn’t work and why Sexton and Garland didn’t pan out. Historically successful teams have a balance at that position. Thompson is a shooter and understands his role. Doesn’t need the ball in his hands and takes it to the hole when he has the lane. Similar situation in Memphis with Bane and Ja Morant and Smart and Jaylen Brown.
You compared them to CP3 and Book. Neither green nor Ivey is a true PG. This is the issue with the KPJ pairing. CP3 elevates Booker’s game by being a pure PG finding seams and openings and drawing defenders etc being the crafty genius he is and not needing to score all the time. That’s why that combo works. Historically great guards had a lesser player who understood, deferred to the better guard, and played their role well. Thompson, Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Rip Hamilton to name a few.
All good points. I only brought up Booker and CP3 as an example of 2 guards that need the ball coexisting and dominating. Ivey is not a pure point guard and has a lot to learn. but right now today, he will collapse defenses with dribble penetration and find Green open. He also already knows how to play off ball when he needs to because he wasn’t the point at Purdue.
I’m not ruling out that it wouldn’t work. It very well could. Just historically it hasn’t with two dominant scoring combo guards. If one can defer to the other and takes a lesser role then perhaps.
We need a leader and the more i look at it, the only two players who can lead a championship team in this draft are Jabari and Ivey. I love Chet, but too much fear for a injury career that'd ruin our bright future with J.Green's prime years. and even if Chet managed to stay away from injuries, i see him a slightly better/more defensively Pozingis and not too much a leader/killer instinct. Paolo is good but IMO is not talented enough to be a top 1-3 pick. He might prove me wrong and turn out to be the 2nd coming of CWebb, but if I have to bet my money i'd take Ivey or Jabari. If Jabari can develop his ball handling skill to KD's level, he has a chance to be KD/Dirk like. For Ivey to play alongside J.Green he'll have to learn more of being a lead guard, but if KPJ can learn and avg. 6+ assists a game i don't see how Ivey can't get you 7-8. a Ivey/Green back court could be like D-Wade + T-Mac in reality (or dream so for me it's easy, if we got the 1st pick, take Jabari. If we landed #2~4, pick Ivey, trade KPJ + Wood + Nwaba + BKN pick(#17) for J. Collins + Hawks' OR Hornets'(via NY to Atl.) pick that should be #12-14. Collins is young and as talented as any of the big men in the draft, can run with our young guards and a great shooting big. use the #12-14 pick to take T.Eason or in case any of the top wings fall out of top 10 (Mathurin/Griffin/David/Sharpe/...) you never know Ivey / J.Green / T.Eason or KMJr. / J.Collins / Sengun looks very promising young building core, with a tons of picks and soon to be available cap for one more star player. or you can use the late-lottery pick in a Wall/Gordon/Tate trade to bring a proven 3/D small forward (ideally Jerami Grant type). Trade scenarios: Wall (expiring 23') + Bucks' pick to Boston for Horford + Smart. Horford (expiring 23') + Tate + #12-14 to Detroit for Grant + Olynyk. This is the scenario that you want to compete in 23' play-offs, Ivey / J.Green / J.Grant / J.Collins / Sengun backup: Smart / Christopher+Mathews+Gordon / K.M.J.+Garuba / Olynyk+Fernando conclusion, if we come out of the draft with Ivey i'll be as happy as we got Jabari, in Stone we trust
Not picking on you.. a lot of people feel Ivey isn’t a point guard. Time will tell but he plays in the absolute worst system and team to show his ball handling and creating. I personally think he is a combo guard and will have no problem running the point in the NBA.
I am. I would take Ivey over Smith or Banchero. I will roll with that backcourt and Christopher off the bench.
He's a hell of an athlete thats for sure. Do you think he's that much of an upgrade over Kevin Porter Jr?
Can KPJ make a successful move to the 3 spot if Ivey is selected? I do think that Ivey and Jalen Green can work successfully together, but KPJ has shown rapid improvement after his poor performance against the Grizzlies with Wood being out.
On floors, take out the Paolo fans comments who seem to only want to judge value based on what Paolo does well, and it seems normal. Granted, Paolo looked great in March.
For now it doesn't matter. We have played Gordon and Mathews as the starting small forwards all year so in the short term, I have to think KPJ would be an upgrade over either of those two next year. Offensively they can all initiate the offense or play off the ball. KPJ is deadly on catch and shoot threes and would attack close outs in ways that only Gary Mathews can do when he plays NBA2K. JG is becoming a huge threat from the 3 point line as well. Ivey should eventually be at least a threat from there so there should be adequate spacing. Lots of threes and lots of drive and kick. Defensively, it is not a long term solution though if the plan is ultimately having Sengun as your starting center. We just don't have enough defense on the floor to compete. That said, I think if you have the right PF and center combination on the floor with Ivey, Green, and KPJ, it could work just fine. At center I'd envision a guy that doesn't need a lot of touches offensively, sets picks, vertical threat, rim running, defensive stud. PF is a long defender that can guard multiple positions and knock down open threes. That's the vision for this lineup to me. Athletes at 5 positions and shooters at 4.
I like your well thought out suggestion. I want the Rockets to select Ivey if they fall down to the 4th pick. I want to retain KPJ.
Chet scares me with his frame and lack of aggression at times. I love his skill and shotblocking though. Banchero’s reminds me of a better version of Carlos Boozer with worse defense. ( Which is saying something) . But he has full toolbox of offensive skills. I love Jabari the most , but was troubled by how he finished his collegiate career. I’d still take him 1 in a heartbeat. Jabari reminds me of a bigger Jayson Tatum ( I’m a huge fan of Tatum’s game) Ivey’s game is built for the NBA & he too will be a star but does he fit with Green? His speed and skill are amazing. I’d take him if I couldn’t get Jabari Smith Jr. and roll the dice on a Green Ivey Backcourt. I’d take a big with our second pick though. So my top 4 (for the Rockets) is: 1. Jabari Smith Jr 2. Jaden Ivey 3. Paolo Banchero ( Coin flip with Chet) 3. Chet Holmgren ( Coin flip with Banchero)
That is my exact ranking of the four players as well. Sucks to have to rely on chance to give Green and Sengun the running mate they need and deserve lol
Yes I do. It also doesn't prevent the Rockets using Porter as a 6th man, in 3 guard line ups and even at the 3.
I may be biased and overly fanatical, but I like what I see from KPJ at point. I dont see a need to move him to the bench, and moving him to the wing 3 doesnt really help with the size issue on the team. If Ivey gets selected I'd almost prefer to move on from KPJ and in the same breath I would hope that there would be an upgrade for Jae Sean Tate. Not sure Stone is ready to go that route especially with Scoot, but you never know.
It is hard to say what the Rockets are willing or ready to do. If I had to guess, if they end up with Ivey they will keep both Ivey and Porter and see what happens and worry about it down the line. I am sure all things being equal that they would rather have an inside player or a swing forward.
Purdue’s Jaden Ivey, an NBA Draft enigma: Can he thrive with Jalen Green in Houston? https://theathletic.com/3292517/2022/05/05/jaden-ivey-houston-rockets/ By 2018, 16-year-old point guard Jaden Ivey already was on Purdue head coach Matt Painter’s radar. The Mishawaka, Ind., native had just completed his sophomore season at Marian High School, averaging 12.6 points, 2.7 rebounds, 2.6 assists and 1.2 steals for the 21-4 Knights. From what Painter had gathered — from watching Ivey’s high school and AAU games, as well as diving into his numbers — Ivey was a sleeper, someone who might have a future at Purdue University. Painter was a full believer in Ivey’s talent and saw him as a potential impact player, even with two years left in his high school career. “He didn’t have the same athleticism then that he obviously has now,” Painter told The Athletic, “but you could see it with some of his speed and the way he moved, very fluid.” There was enough intrigue to warrant a further look. A few months later, in August, Purdue hosted its annual Elite Camp, a combine and showcase for top high school prospects. Ivey, among players like Cam’Ron Fletcher and Chet Holmgren, made the summer trip to the France A. Cordóva Recreational Sports Center to give Painter and the Boilermakers staff an up-close view of their skill sets. Throughout the various drills, learning sessions and scrimmages, Ivey showed a different side to his game that hadn’t been seen. It left enough of a mark that Painter offered the soon-to-be junior a scholarship. “He played really well and looked even better than he did that (previous) time that I saw him,” Painter said. “And we offered him at that time. I was kind of taken aback, because I thought we were his first major offer — and we were his first offer, period.” Ivey’s junior season was successful. He averaged 24.9 points, 3.3 rebounds, 1.1 assists and 1.8 steals for the Knights, who finished the year with a 20-4 record and 11-1 conference record. Following the 2018-19 campaign, Ivey made the decision to transfer to La Lumiere School in La Porte, Ind., for his senior year. La Lumiere had gained recognition in the area, rubbing shoulders with some of the top programs not only in the state, but on a national level. It also had a solid track record, producing NBA talent like Memphis’ Jaren Jackson Jr. and Golden State’s Jordan Poole. During this time, Purdue stepped up its efforts to land Ivey. The important initial bond already had been established; from there, it was all about furthering that relationship. During the recruiting period and Painter’s official visits, he was able to get to know Ivey better on a personal level. From their series of conversations, Ivey struck Painter as a player who constantly wanted to work on his game. His love for the game came, in large part, from his mother. Niele Ivey is the head women’s basketball coach at Notre Dame and has deep, extended roots in the sport. She was an All-American at Notre Dame, winning the NCAA title in 2001, before making the leap to the WNBA, plying her trade for the Indiana Fever, Detroit Shock and Phoenix Mercury. Additionally, Ivey’s father, Javin Hunter, played receiver at Notre Dame, was drafted by the Baltimore Ravens and also played for the San Francisco 49ers. Painter sometimes would joke and compare Ivey to some of the NFL’s premier shutdown corners because of his unreal athletic ability. Ivey dabbled in the sport growing up, along with karate and soccer. The same way Painter became more comfortable talking with Ivey and envisioning a partnership, Ivey became more comfortable and sure of where his future lay. All signs pointed to a commitment to Purdue after a season with La Lumiere. “Sometimes you recruit guys, and they make it feel like you’re fortunate to recruit them,” Painter said. “He always was very appreciative of us recruiting him. “Not everybody feels that way, but there’s enough people that get recruited that feel that way, and I think that was kind of where we were with him. He was always appreciative that we put in time; he was always appreciative that we came to his games. We just had a good relationship from the start.” Painter’s main objective for Ivey during his freshman season in 2020-21 was getting him acclimated. The COVID-19 pandemic made that transition even tougher, and the impact of COVID on a global scale made playing basketball seem like a minuscule thing. Painter wanted to get everyone under one accord before they explored the basketball side of things. “You’re just trying to get everybody on the same page, period, let alone basketball-wise,” Painter said. As talented as Ivey was before becoming a Boilermaker, he was by no means a finished product. He had to play his way through some early “rookie” mistakes. Ivey’s first instinct was to try and score the ball — essentially his default option. No matter the situation on the floor, his presumed answer to any in-game problem was to be aggressive and look to put points on the board. A mindset and mentality like that in a young player is desirable, but it can be a gift and a curse. An early-season right foot injury forced him to slow things down — literally and physically. Part of Painter’s early homework was getting Ivey to pick his battles wisely. “He just had to learn when to hold and when to fold them,” Painter said. Ivey’s early struggles with time and score situations kept him glued to the bench at the end of games, but Painter said he saw real progress during the middle of January 2021 — and his minutes subsequently picked up. Ivey started his first game for Purdue on Jan. 22, 2021, a 70-53 loss to Michigan. Despite the loss, Ivey’s performance — 12 points, five rebounds and five assists in 31 minutes — was enough to warrant holding onto that spot for the final 12 games of the season. Ivey finished the year averaging 11.1 points, 3.3 rebounds and 1.9 assists, and he was named to the All-Big Ten Freshman Team. After losing in the quarterfinals of the Big Ten Tournament to Ohio State, Purdue (18-10, 13-6 in Big Ten) earned a No. 4 seed in the NCAA Tournament. During the summer of 2021, Painter’s offseason message to Ivey was to keep getting better. That meant making better decisions on the floor, taking better shots within the flow of the offense, improving his defense and, most importantly, competing harder for longer stretches. In nearly two decades at the helm at Purdue, Painter has seen just about every type of college player come through his program. He’s had enough players drafted to know what it takes to make it to that level. Everything starts with effort. “That’s a consistent thing for most young guys, just learning how to play hard all the time,” Painter said. “I call it a concentrated effort. All it is, is doing your job while playing hard. Like, some guys will play hard, but they don’t do their job. He’s grown in that area. He’s not where he needs to be, but he’s grown a lot in that concentrated effort. That’s something that he’s got to keep working on and keep getting better.”
In the summer of 2021, Ivey played for Team USA in the U-19 FIBA World Cup in Latvia. The United States, led by Ivey and Holmgren, earned a gold medal. Ivey set the tone for his tournament performance in a team-leading 23-point, three-rebound, two-assist, four-steal outing against Turkey. He averaged 12.3 points, 3.0 rebounds and 2.1 assists per game and was named to the All-Tournament Team. Being selected to that group gave Ivey the confidence boost he needed headed into his sophomore season at Purdue. Being able to go toe-to-toe with some of the best players in the world in the same age group propelled him. Year-2 Ivey was a different animal. He showed the summer work he put in on his outside shot wasn’t in vain, improving his 3-point percentage by 10 points (25.8 to 35.8). Painter’s teams typically are flush with older talent, but Ivey still found an avenue to take on a bigger leadership role. Ivey as a sophomore led Purdue to a 29-8 record — including a 14-6 finish in the Big Ten and a stellar 16-1 record at home — averaging 17.3 points, 4.9 rebounds and 3.1 assists per game. It wasn’t so much the statistical jumps he made that impressed Painter; it was the maturation in his game. The high-flying windmill dunks and big-time plays were the highlights that decorated SportsCenter, much like the game-winning 3 he hit against Ohio State in January. But Painter saw a different level of control in the way Ivey managed games against quality opponents like Villanova and North Carolina, from a point guard’s perspective. Not only did it give Painter confidence his program could compete with perennial Final Four teams (Purdue had never made an appearance under Painter), but it also gave him optimism for Ivey’s NBA future. “We had a lot of guys step up and play well, but when he would get on those runs and make two to three plays in a row, they were electric,” Painter said. Purdue narrowly missed out on an Elite Eight appearance this past season, losing to tournament Cinderella St. Peters by three, but the year was anything but a failure. Ivey earned First Team All-Big Ten and Second Team All-American honors, joining Big Ten lottery-bound talent like Wisconsin’s Johnny Davis and Iowa’s Keegan Murray. As a testament to his all-around game, he and Duke’s Paolo Banchero were the only players in college basketball to record a season with 600 points, 175 rebounds, 100 assists, 30 steals and 20 blocks. Because of his yearlong commitment to Purdue’s program and the day-to-day rigors of the job, Painter hasn’t had much time to pay close attention to the NBA season — and certainly not a team like the Houston Rockets. But with a 52.1 percent chance of a top-four pick and a 14 percent chance at the top overall pick, the Rockets are guaranteed to make a high selection at the 2022 NBA Draft. Ivey, along with Banchero, Holmgren, Murray and Auburn’s Jabari Smith, are considered the best players available — although there isn’t a clear-cut pack leader. There will be debate over the coming days leading up to the lottery, but could Ivey find himself in Houston? Last season, the Rockets drafted Jalen Green, the high-flying shooting guard out of the G League. Green, like Ivey, came into the league an unfinished product, but he finished the season strong and has given the organization a real shot at finding its franchise cornerstone. Outside of that, there are still a plethora of questions. One question lies in the backcourt. Current starter Kevin Porter Jr. was traded to Houston prior to the 2020-21 season for a future protected second-round pick and was asked to change his position to full-time point guard, an experiment that is still in progress. It’s a hard ask, telling a player to switch after being drafted, but Porter has done a decent job overall, particularly when considering what he’s had to work with and that the Rockets are currently in the beginning of a rebuild. Still, it’s not his natural position. With a looming restricted free agency next summer (Porter now is extension-eligible), the 2022-23 season will be critical for Porter. Is there a thought that Ivey, Green and Porter all could play together? It would be similar to the on-paper idea that John Wall could’ve shared the floor with Green and Porter this season; Porter would be more of a playmaking forward and less of a lead ballhandler. He’s a talented enough scorer and solid enough passer that he might be more efficient if he’s not worried about getting the team set up offensively every possession. It all would come down to how Rockets head coach Stephen Silas would use Ivey. At Purdue, Painter had him initiate plays here and there, but he was better deployed as a weapon in transition. Ivey didn’t need to begin possessions with the ball in his hands if he knew that once he got the ball, a quick screen-and-go would be enough for him to get downhill. Per Synergy, Ivey finished in the 84th percentile in pick-and-roll situations, scoring .919 points per possession. “Because he was so electric in open space, we tried to empty out the middle and just set a lot of ball screens where he had a lot of room to attack and to break people down at that time,” Painter said. “Then, we ran (some) stuff for him with the basketball in the half court. We would run stuff when we’re getting the basketball especially at the end of plays, because we have good size. So, if we couldn’t get something on the interior and get something going, we’d finished the play with a ball screen or just letting him have space to break people down.” For players with Ivey’s gravity, optimizing floor space is key. Everything depends on how the defense is playing. Sometimes, Ivey doesn’t need a big to set a screen because bringing an extra teammate also brings an extra defender, which in turns can clog the runway. If a team has its bigs playing drop coverage, that’s a death sentence when Ivey has the ball — it’s a straight-line drive to the basket, and he’s too fast and strong. A team that prefers to hedge and recover would mean keeping the floor as spaced as possible. That level of in-game understanding comes with film work. At Purdue, Ivey spent a lot of time doing individual sessions with assistant coaches. During those, he tended to express a lot of predetermined thoughts, a common sign for young players. Those thoughts sometimes manifested themselves when teams would switch how they normally defended Ivey and put him in the occasional bind. There’s no denying that a backcourt shared by Ivey and Green instantly would become one of the most athletic in the league. Both are menaces in transition and are a defender’s worst nightmare. Silas wants to push the pace and be dangerous in transition; there’s no doubt he could find that with those two sharing the floor. Purdue’s practices were home to some of Ivey’s most incredible feats. If he found an open seam in the open floor, it was curtains. “He was the fastest guy in college basketball with size,” Painter said. “It’s almost like a football game, where they have angles on him, and he outruns that angle, then just dunks on everybody.” Ivey’s acrobatics and power often have been compared to Memphis’ Ja Morant, the NBA’s newly crowned Most Improved Player. Ivey’s year-to-year leap at Purdue certainly is MIP-esque, but the comparisons are more than that. “I think there’s got to be a lot of similarities,” Painter said. “Where Russell Westbrook was as a freshman in college, (where Ja was), where Jaden was at the same time, there’s got to be a lot of comparisons. Those guys obviously have had amazing growth since those points, but he has that kind of ability. I don’t feel like that’s going out on a limb (just) because he’s our guy. He has that kind of ability. He is that fast. He is that athletic.” On the other side of the ball, Ivey has shown flashes but still has a good deal of work to do. “He’s got a lot of potential to be a really good defensive player, but he’s a long way away,” Painter admitted. At the next level, Ivey will need to be able to understand pro schemes and have the discipline to execute on the fly. Should he find himself in Houston, Silas is one to deploy multiple approaches, sometimes even in the same possession. A Green-Ivey backcourt could be defensively challenged from multiple standpoints. But Painter knows that should Ivey get that part of the game down, his natural talents will take over and cause him to make positive plays on a routine basis. His athleticism allows him to recover and make incredible blocks even when he’s behind plays. He has good enough size and strength to ride with drives and take shoves and body checks. Whichever team drafts Ivey, Painter believes it needs to be a group of individuals solely focused on his growth, one that provides enough experience and advice. Houston oozes that with lead assistant John Lucas, assistants Will Weaver and Jeff Hornacek and of course, Silas. This past season showed the rebuild is an all-hands-on-deck approach, with everyone working towards a common goal of becoming a dangerous team in the years to come. Ivey is an enigma who splits opinion across a multitude, but there’s no denying his magnetism, appeal and potential. That alone should make his stock worthy of a serious look, no matter where the Rockets end up picking come June 23. “Whoever drafts him needs to know that he has a lot of work to do,” Painter said. “But he also has a huge ceiling. He could be a guy that could be an All-Star for many years. But his growth is going to be really important these first couple of years.”
