[Official] Evan Mobley as a Cleveland Cavaliers thread

He's top 5 in rookies in scoring, but he has 70% of his shots assisted, scoring at only TS 54%, well below positional average at the 4-5.

Also, I don't understand how any of what you are saying is a counterpoint to the fact that Mobley's defense craters without Jarrett Allen, and all-defensive center, next to him.

He is more than competent at guarding 1-5 when asked to switch, but if you ask him to guard 5s full time he'll struggle? 4s guarding 5s is one of the most natural defensive switches in the league, at what point does he struggle? Guarding the possession 10 times, or 20 times? At what point does he go from very good at guarding 5 to one of the worse defense in the league at guarding 5s.

 

*sigh*

I understand that the old CF talking points are comfortable but you are really missing the point.

The Cavs system requires multiple 7 footers to be able to switch - defend perimeter AND crowd the paint, eliminating easy baskets.

With Allen and Mobley together in more than 1,000 minutes, the Cavs have a stingy 103.7 defensive rating. With the supersized trio of Allen, Markkanen and Mobley, the Cavs boast a defensive rating of 102.0.

You cannot just remove one of these components, let alone TWO, and expect same results. Especially an elite top 5 defensive performer like Allen without causing domino effect on entire defensive system.

Moses Brown, a traditional 5, playing in place of Allen and without the injured Mobley has performed even WORSE defensively than the undersized Mobley playing the 5, sans Jarrett Allen.

Moreover, the Cavs have lost key pieces integral to perimeter and transition defense. Rubio and Dean Wade have been replaced by lesser defenders in Caris Levert and Love.

Mobley moving to 5 further impacted perimeter and transition defense. The Cavs guards have become even more turnover prone later in the season exacerbating defensive woes.

It's still a team game as such success requires synchronicity. Cavs success is based on defense first and their best defensive players are out.

The Cavs are 6-12 in games this season without Allen. For comparison, the team is 7-7 without Darius Garland and 3-5 without Evan Mobley. Overall, the Cavs are 26-14 when Allen, Garland and Mobley are in the lineup, but are 15-19 when just one of them are out.



Your microscope analysis of one player without system context is flawed.

 

Not to sound obtuse, because these are fair analysis, but you are reinforcing the point that Mobley is placed in the perfect position for him to succeed, which is basically the point that is being communicated in the last few pages.

At the end of the day, the Cavalier's defense suffers the most when they are without Jarrett Allen, and the defensive ratings reinforces this point. This isn't to say that the team is better without Mobley, because no one would argue that. The point is Mobley's strengths and weaknesses have been perfectly showcased/hidden with the Cavaliers. They have components, especially on defense, that complements his skill sets.

The defensive system point you brought up, and the Cavaliers losing key defenders which Mobley cannot cover for, is a good point, but it also just means that on a team like the Rockets, he'll have the exact same issues.

 

jalen betta

 

Bingo.

Rockets made the right pick.

 

I think Mobley would be very effective with any strong defender at the 5, but he needs that anchor for his strength of harrassing guards on the perimeter to be showcased.

If he was paired with someone like Wood or Sengun for example, he would have to be in the low post fighting against much stronger bigs, which would not give him the freedom to play the same way he does now with Allen

 

flamingdts

Your rebuttals are spot on. Mobley landed in the perfect spot, it’s obvious when the conditions changed, and what helps make him successful there isn’t on our team. It’s really not that complicated and I’m lost on why that’s hard for some to admit. It doesn’t mean he sucks, but get off the gas.

 

solid season for the cavs with a number of things to look forward to down the line but I don't see the cavs making it in the actual playoffs. Nets/Atl will occupy the 7/8 seeds

 

watch them win the lottery and get jabari.

 

Too late.

So you think Mobley is a non factor on offense?

Are you really using defensive ratings to judge how good he is defensively?

It's crazy how many go all in on Mobley, but then clutch their pearls if anybody says anything remotely critical about Green.

Anybody with any sense would know that defensive rating will be better when you have good defensive guy playing with you, it's called teamwork.

 

It seems like he was noting how dependent Mobley is on others for his offense.

Why wouldn’t he use them? The league revolves around analytics now.

Which Houston doesn’t have, which is why folks have always been saying he wouldn’t be as impactful here. Which is quite supported once Allen went down. The same goes for his offense. We don’t have any playmakers here to spoonfeed him 70% of his scoring opportunities. He would have to create his own offense…which he doesn’t excel at.

 

Because there are no good analytics for individual defense, and is that even really analytics?

We don't know if he can create his own offense because he is not asked to do it because he is usually the 3rd or 4th offensive priority.

Furthermore, to be valuable he does not have to be the focal point of the offense, so I don't even know why you think this means anything.

Its very telling that you think him not scoring in isolation means he would not have impact on the team, he most certainly would be scoring more unassisted if he was on a team like Houston.

Circumstances matter.

 

We know he isn’t great at creating his own offense based on his skillsets. No one said he wasn’t valuable. We said he’s not as valuable as some have been arguing that he is, and that he wouldn’t look as good here because we don’t have the things that are helping him succeed in Cleveland.

Yes, circumstances matter a lot. He fell into an ideal one. Fortunately he had great guard play and a true defensive anchor.

 

We don't know what he can do because he is currently not asked to do it, there is nothing in his skill set that will preclude him from being able to create his own offense.

You acting like he is Clint Capela

Nobody said he did not fall into a great situation, I have no idea what you are even trying to say.

 

You are beating a strawman.

This is probably why you seem to ignore the most obvious argument some people are putting out.

 

Strawman?

Ok, you feel better getting that off your chest?

Help me out, what do you think was the most obvious argument?

 

that's a bit of a cop out on the first part. He really hasn't show he can consistently create offense when he does try create. It's not like he never attempted to create offense, they do post him up from time to time. He has the potential and some moves, but it's not currently very efficient for a big man.

Nobody is saying he will never be able to improve on it.

It's like Green's passing, he hasn't consistently shown he can create passes at a high level yet.

 

Don't disagree with this, I think it's a combination of not being asked to do it and not being able to do it at a high level.

So yeah maybe a bit overboard in my objection, I just don't like the narrative that he is not capable or not skilled.

 

FYI - Cavs defensive system was not implemented until Mobley was drafted.

Even with JA, Love, Dean, Drummond, etc. on their roster season prior.

And Mobley is not a 5 and would not play the 5 on the Rockets.

Wood is the 5 in this scenario.

Or even Sengun at C with Mobley at SF and Wood at PF.

There is absolutely no denying that Mobley's addition would have improved the Rockets defense above and beyond it's current ranking.

Again, Rockets problem was not scoring - its fielding the worst defense in NBA.