Sometimes the only way to sustain a fight against majority rule is to form your own tribe, much like how colony/states formed early in this nation's founding. You have to wonder whether language and culture are byproducts of tribalism and geography. One less heavy example for reinforcing tribalist thinking and cult-like vibes is how tech companies in Silly Valley operate by over promising features and business vision (every app Saves the World even if it only tells you whether what's on the camera is a hotdog or not. Without that self delusion, most wouldn't take risks and get anything done.
Not being able to afford healthcare makes those diseases a death sentence. Working 2 or 3 jobs because the rich don't want to pay workers a livable wage isn't living at all. People are fighting for survival in the good old USA. At least Democrats want to help them survive under those circumstances.
I think anyone in charge of others should stand by the same values they expect from them. How can you hold others accountable for standards you don't follow? It's hypocritical. The President of the United States is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. US Navy and Marines Core Values: Honor Courage Commitment US Army core values: Loyalty. Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers. ... Duty. Fulfill your obligations. ... Respect. Treat people as they should be treated. ... Selfless Service. ... Honor. ... Integrity. ... Personal Courage US Air Force Core Values: INTEGRITY FIRST. An Airman is a person of integrity, courage and conviction. ... SERVICE BEFORE SELF. An Airman's professional duties take precedence over personal desires. ... EXCELLENCE IN ALL WE DO A man like Trump doesn't possess even half those values, so how can he be trusted or respected as the Commander in Chief? As a retired Veteran I can't respect or trust a man who puts self before service, lies compulsively, has no courage at all, treats those he doesn't like with no respect whatsoever, and isn't loyal to anyone who doesn't vote for him. You can't respect someone who bullies anyone who dares to call out his lies. You can't call him loyal when he tried to overturn the election, and stood by and watched his followers threaten to hang his Vice President. You can't call him loyal when he treats guys like Putin or North Korea's crazy leader better than any American Democrat. I could go on and on, but I won't. He just isn't capable of leading troops by example. It's not in his spoon fed, gifted money by Daddy, bone spurs DNA. He's always and always will be Me first. Me the best. Me, me, me, me, me.[/QUOTE]
I'll preface this by saying Trump is an idiot and a horrible human being. That being said, that is what I think. Clearly others disagree. I know plenty of smart, hard working, family oriented, charitable folks who voted for Trump. While I disagree with their choice, it is their choice and I still feel they are full of integrity. Most of them voted against Clinton and Biden moreso than they voted for Trump.
You are on a tangent. I wasn't talking about people voting. I asked if you think the boss should hold the same standards expected of those he leads, and was referring to the Standards of Conduct expected of the military. Trump doesn't have even half those characteristics. Read them again. The President is Commander and Chief of the military. If you work for a boss in any business I would think the standards, values, ethics, and moral codes they set for your core values should work both ways in order for them to be respected and trusted to lead you.
I am talking about you saying that people who voted for Trump do not have any integrity. Sorry if I quoted the wrong post of yours. In looking at my comment, I assume you would have made the connection.
I didn't say that people that voted for Trump have no integrity. I said...... I ask any GOP voter with any bit of morals and integrity, do you know you are supporting women beaters, child beaters, pedophiles, and adulterers? Trump and some of his hench men and endorsements were the ones I was calling out as hypocrites and bad people. I have relatives who are good people. They are just naive and steadfast GOP party forever. They believe the lies and propaganda put out by Trump and his party. They watch Fox News. They are naive, but not bad people. They want to believe, because to them Democrats are bad. That's what they honestly believe. I think it's because they grew up in farm country in rural America and don't really see as many of the hardships and poverty people in huge cities of America live in. Not all of them are Republicans though. Some believe in the Democratic values. Trump has no integrity, and can't be trusted because he's been fact checked in thousands of lies. He can't change that. It's part of being a malignant narcissist and compulsive liar, which are traits of a sociopath. He can NEVER admit he is wrong because his ego won't let him. Again, traits of a sociopath. Now, how do you feel about the question I posted asking if the leader and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces should possess the same values, morals, ethics, and traits expected of the troops? I know respect can only be earned, from 20 years in the military. Trust is just as crucial. Can you trust a leader who is a compulsive liar? Can you respect a leader who doesn't possess or follow even half the values expected from you? I don't believe any leader of any corporation, business, team, or anything else can earn trust and respect from those that they lead if they can't. I gave plenty of examples on all of those values where Trump is concerned.
Did you read the very first part of my post to you that you originally responded to? If not, go back and reread. I think it will answer your question ETA I see it was DD that spoke of integrity
Yes, that is why I showed you what I said. I don't believe all people who vote Republican have no integrity or morals. I know plenty who do. Are you not even going to comment on the question I asked you about the Commander in Chief? How do you feel about my comments and reasoning for my opinion on that?
I've already said that i think Trump is an idiot and a horrible human being. What more do you want me to say? I think he's done more damage to this country than any US citizen in my lifetime.
Self delusion is a very different thing than tribalism. People can drink the koolaid, but it's entirely another thing to for a defensive group where all other groups are viewed as the enemy and less human.
This is how GOP voters view you. They would ask you how can you vote for someone like Biden and democrats who want to murder babies, take away freedom, turn your kids into gays and transgender people, violate children, etc etc. They think democrats are the ones without integrity.
Not sure what this has to do with tribalism to be honest. Also, I don't think Democrats are more or less compassionate than Conservatives.
I don't think movements have tribal elements in them. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see it that way. I don't think it's tribalism that drove independence movements as much as it was a sense of justice. I do think tribalism drives Nationalism, which is why I've never been a flag waving American. You don't have to be a Nationalist to be loyal to your country.
Abolitionists were a splinter of a larger religious tribe who felt whatever was taught in the Bible at the time, and cultural racial supremacy didn't jive with their moral beliefs. To simply describe it as a movement diminishes the inertia they had to fight against as it was far easier to roll with the majority with no real skin off their hide. Can Al Qaeda be described as a "movement"? After all, they disagreed with a majority of Muslims worldwide and were looking to enact revolutionary change. They weren't really the vanguard of their "Muslim tribe". They just claimed to be. So Tribalism can be as simple as liking and following your team. You like it long enough, it grows on you and you identify with others who follow it. I think what you have in mind is fanaticism or some form of extreme tribalism, but as we're forced to learn about and deal with "unconscious bias", it's an innate human quality to find commonality and band around it. Emotions guide us to discriminate between like and dislike over time. This plus predominant cultural preconceptions have lead and will continue to lead to where we are without a heavy degree of self awareness and deterimination.
There you go on your tangent. I said Trump is the one with no integrity. He's a sociopathic liar. If people think you can turn children into gays and transgenders then they are out of their mind. As for freedom, the GOP is taking away freedoms of people more than Democrats.
Then I don't know what we're talking about - this whole debate was about how anyone could support Trump. That they lacked integrity for doing so.
