1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,968
    Likes Received:
    3,389
    India buying Russian crude isn't necessarily the issue. Not only does US produces significant amounts of oil but both of its neighbors to the north and south also have significant oil production. The US could cut itself off from Russia precisely because it really doesn't rely very much on Russian crude for much of anything. Canada was able to do the same thing for the same reason.

    The problem with India is the same problem that has existed since its independence. During the Cold War, India refused to pick a side but given India's heavy socialist past, it always leaned closer to the USSR and to this day still has close ties to Russia. So India is clumsily still trying to play both sides while failing to read the room. They've been doing this for over 70 years now. This isn't really surprising anymore.
     
  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    India is a unique nation with a unique culture, which will soon be the most populous nation on earth. They have no incentive to take sides on this. They do not support the fantasy that we live in a unipolar world, with the North Atlantic globalist elites, naturally in command. The idea that India would endorse or support that smacks of a 21st century colonialism, which they have literally zero interest in accommodating.

    We live in a multipolar world with power competition between the different nations of the earth - just like always. The Indians understand this. he crew currently running Washington DC very largely apparently does not. The later explains why our current strategy with the Russians is in-congruent with the objectives we purport to want to achieve, and why the Indians are ready to sit this one out. Clearly we need some leaders who are capable of accepting reality and not foolishly imagining that they can reorder the geopolitical world by decree, or by having a colossal temper tantrum. If only.
     
  3. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,253
    Likes Received:
    9,223
  4. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,253
    Likes Received:
    9,223
  5. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    5,078
    Likes Received:
    6,754
    Whatever you say about this guy. He sure knows how to inspire people.

     
    basso and Blatz like this.
  6. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,532
    Likes Received:
    14,263
    Wasn't MAGA, in part, about making foreign countries taking advantage of us pay? Temper Tantrum Trump certainly tried to rework the world based on the 50s/60s.

    India requires a lot of energy and doesn't want to be in a supply shock. I've seen nothing to suggest the current US administration thinks it's a unipolar world.
     
  7. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,756
    Likes Received:
    17,676
    Hakeemtheking likes this.
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,747
    Likes Received:
    41,178
    Given up that every single day that passes, a fading Russia is even more propped up by a very unfriendly China, it's not hard to see which should side India should throw in with.
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Agreed. They are smart to side with their own side. There are more than just two sides on this, in case you did not know. This is not like a game of chess, with just two players. It is more like a game of Risk, with a pretty large number of players still playing.

    Sadly, the crew running things in Washington does not appear to appreciate this distinction. And that is made worse, since they are probably more suited to marbles or a game of jacks than either chess, or even checkers for that matter.
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,300
    if true, good job hackers

     
    No Worries and Ottomaton like this.
  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,300
    if true... just wow... not the massive impact on Russia's military in a short few weeks (old news) but that a leak came out from within the Russian Ministry of Defense that gets published by a pro-kremlin newspaper
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,596
    Likes Received:
    38,818
    India is a weird country so over crowded, so full of beauty and trash in the same block.

    They are a mess.

    DD
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  13. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,253
    Likes Received:
    9,223
    by comparison, the Soviets lost ~180,000 killed or missing during the ~two months of Operation Bagration in the summer of 1944. German losses are estimated to be, depending on the source, 50-100% higher.
     
  14. thegary

    thegary Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,005
    Likes Received:
    3,127
    If you took a deep breath, chilled, and came to grips with the fact that you are a dotard and ignorant, you might finally be capable of making an intelligent comment.
     
    Nook and Andre0087 like this.
  15. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,300
    U.S., EU allies to coordinate on China in NATO, G7 meetings this week | Reuters

    WASHINGTON, March 21 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden's bid to drive a wedge between Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin over the Ukraine war will be a key topic of discussion this week when Biden travels to Brussels for talks with European leaders.

    The United States and its allies will discuss providing weaponry and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine and the Ukrainian refugee crisis at an extraordinary NATO summit, meeting of the Group of Seven economies, and a European Council summit on Thursday.


    But after his inconclusive talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping on Friday, Biden also plans to coordinate a response to Beijing if it provides material support to Russia's invasion of Ukraine with European leaders, U.S. administration officials say.

    "During his visit to Brussels, President Biden will coordinate with our EU partners on all aspects of our response to President Putin’s unprovoked and unjustified war on Ukraine, and this includes the concerns we share with the EU if China provides material support to Russia," said a senior Biden administration official.


    The success of close coordination on economic sanctions, export controls and trade measures imposed on Russia have brought Europe and the United States closer together, a second senior U.S. official said. These democratic leaders have growing concerns about China's potential role in the conflict.

    "The challenges that we face ... are the same ones the Europeans face. And so I really do think that there is ... an inflection point here in many ways," the second official said.


    European nations and the United States have been working behind the scenes for weeks to try to convince Chinese officials not to back Putin's invasion of Ukraine, which Moscow calls a "special operation," and to push Putin for a cease fire. The war has killed hundreds of civilians, destroyed towns and displaced millions.

    The Chinese ambassador to the United States, Qin Gang, told CBS News' "Face the Nation" on Sunday that China was not sending arms or financial assistance to Russia. However, he and other Chinese officials have publicly rejected a push to change course, claiming China is on the right side of history. read more

    Some diplomats and analysts see signs that Beijing is shifting. Recent statements from Beijing have called for a cease fire, and emphasized the war's cost to the global economy, one European official noted, a split from Russia's position.

    In the year since Biden took office, Xi has shown no sign of buckling to various U.S. demands, and has been using closer ties with Russia as a counterweight against pressures exerted on China by the West.

    Xi has rejected investigations into the origin of the coronavirus in Wuhan, China, in 2019. He has refused to pressure North Korea to rein in its nuclear weapons program and rejected criticism of Chinese treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. He has raised tensions with Taiwan and continued a quest to dominate the South China Sea.

    However, China's close economic ties to Group of Seven wealthy democracies, which buy about one-third of its exports, could provide leverage in the bid to distance Xi from Putin . read more
     
  16. dc rock

    dc rock Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Messages:
    7,625
    Likes Received:
    13,399
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,333
    And you don't think Russia invading a separate sovereign country isn't trying to reorder the geopolitical by decree or having a temper tantrum?
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,333
    It is interesting to watch several people who have spent the past few years blasting the PRC and blaming them for the "Chinese Virus" are now basically parroting the PRC line regarding Ukraine and Russia. Just on this page we see someone echoing the PRC's own arguments that we live in a multipolar world where Washington can't dictate things.
     
    Nook, Blatz, Andre0087 and 3 others like this.
  19. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,440
    And yet we're the sheeple.
     
    Blatz and Andre0087 like this.
  20. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,182
    Likes Received:
    15,318
    Buck Turgidson and Blatz like this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now