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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Blatz

    Blatz Member

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    The ones around me have no clue. Once you start asking questions they don't know anything about or expose an obviously false claim they usually get a little defensive and say well they are all crooks. That is normally the end of it.
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    US recently said Putin is a war criminal. UK said there is very strong evidence Putin is a war criminal.

    UK defense chief: Putin has turned to a strategy of attrition. Apparently, after his plan of liberating Ukraine failed, Putin's plan B is to kill all of them indiscriminately.

    Putin has unleashed ‘reckless’ attacks on Ukraine as invasion plan fails, say UK and US | Evening Standard

    Vladimir Putin has unleashed “reckless and indiscriminate” firepower on Ukraine after his initial invasion plan failed “bedevilled” with problems of the Kremlin’s own making, Britain’s military intelligence chief said on Friday.

    Lieutenant General Jim Hockenhull, Chief of Defence Intelligence, stressed that the Russian president’s strategy would now lead to more civilian casualties, with thousands already believed to have been killed.

    He also accused Mr Putin of seeking to hide the scale of fatalities among his troops from the Russian people, with some reports that more than 7,000 had already died.

    Lt Gen Hockenhull said: “The Kremlin has so far failed to achieve its original objectives.

    “It has been surprised by the scale and ferocity of Ukrainian resistance and has been bedevilled with problems of its own making.”

    With Mr Putin having failed with his suspected plan to seize Kyiv within days, Russian troops have switched to heavy bombardment of cities including Mariupol, Kharhiv and Sumy.

    “Russian operations have changed,” explained the defence chief.

    “Russia is now pursuing a strategy of attrition.

    “This will involve the reckless and indiscriminate use of firepower.

    “This will result in increased civilian casualties, destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure and intensify the humanitarian crisis.”

    Mr Putin’s plan is believed to have floundered due to him expecting his troops to have been welcomed in Ukraine as liberators, poor logistical operations, a failure to destroy Ukraine’s military air capacity, and the strong Ukrainian resistance.

    Now, he is facing growing disquiet in Russia, even though polling suggests the majority of Russians are still saying they support what the Russian president calls a “special military operation”.

    Thousands of Russians have already been arrested for protesting against the war, with media outlets not following the Kremlin line on the war being closed down.

    Lt Gen Hockenhull added: “Putin has reinforced his control over Russian domestic media.

    “The Kremlin is attempting to control the narrrative, hide operational problems and obscure high Russian casualty numbers from the Russian people.”

    He spoke after US and UK defence chiefs revealed earlier on Friday Putin’s troops are “frozen” in their positions as his invasion has stalled and he resorts to inflicting “unimaginable suffering” on civilians by bombarding Ukrainian towns and cities.

    Britain’s armed forces minister James Heappey said Russian troops were “making no real progress”, having failed to encircle Kyiv or to capture any major city in Ukraine.

    President Putin also appeared to be facing growing disquiet in Russia after his invasion plan, which is thought to have envisaged seizing Kyiv within days, has gone so spectacularly wrong with thousands of his troops being killed.

    Attempted advances, with poorly-supplied forces suffering low morale, were being met by strong Ukrainian resistance, preventing them from gaining ground, say defence sources.

    “They clearly were not prepared for them to be in the position they are three weeks in — basically frozen around the country on multiple lines of axes, struggling to fuel themselves and to feed their troops and to supply them with arms and ammunition and meeting a very determined Ukrainian resistance,” said a senior US official.

    Mr Heappey told BBC Breakfast: “The reality is that, on the big map, the picture looks exactly the same as it has done for the last week. Russia is making no real progress. That as a headline, would give you some cause for optimism. But what exists beneath the surface is a number of besieged cities, Kharkiv, Mariupol, Sumy most notably, where there is just unimaginable suffering because the Russian tactics are now to just launch artillery indiscriminately into those cities and to not really care apparently who is underneath the artillery when it falls.”

    As the war in Ukraine entered its 23rd day:

    • British military chiefs said this morning that the cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol had all been hit with heavy bombardment.
    • Nearly 90 per cent of Mariupol was now reported to have been hit by Russian shelling and air strikes.
    • Russia’s defence ministry claimed separatists in eastern Ukraine, backed by Russian troops, were “tightening the noose” around Mariupol, Russia’s RIA Novosti news agency reported.
    • Civic chiefs said several missiles hit a building close to the airport of Lviv, in western Ukraine, to where many refugees have fled as they seek to reach the West. It was believed to be an aircraft maintenance centre.
    • Explosions were heard shortly after 6am UK time, to the north-west of Kyiv.
    • In a call with Mr Putin, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz called for a ceasefire. However, the Russian president claimed Ukraine was making unrealistic proposals in peace talks, according to the Kremlin.
    • One of Russia’s top paratroop commanders, Colonel Sergei Sukharev, of the 331st Guards Parachute Assault Regiment, has been killed in Ukraine, state TV in Moscow confirmed.
    The fate of hundreds of civilians, including children, who were reportedly sheltering in the basement of a theatre in Mariupol when it was hit by a huge Russian bomb, remained unclear. Some reports suggested some people had been pulled out alive but this had not been confirmed.

    Mr Heappey condemned Vasily Nebenzya, Russia’s ambassador to the UN, for denying that his country’s forces hit the theatre, telling Sky News: “I don’t know how the Russian ambassador sleeps at night.”

    US president Joe Biden was due to talk with Chinese president Xi Jinping on Friday, in an attempt to starve Russia’s war machine by isolating Moscow from the one big power that has yet to condemn its assault.

    US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Mr Biden would make clear to Mr Xi that China “will bear responsibility for any actions it takes to support Russia’s aggression”.

    Mr Heappey said the UK was now training Ukrainian troops to use the Starstreak anti-aircraft missile system, which Britain is supplying and which was due to arrive in the country “imminently”. He defended Defence Secretary Ben Wallace who ended a call with an imposter posing as the Ukrainian Prime Minister, insisting he would not have said anything inappropriate given his security training. British defence chiefs said this morning that Ukrainian troops were continuing to “frustrate” Russian attempts to encircle the capital Kyiv.

    They added: “The UN now states that the number of refugees fleeing the conflict in Ukraine has already surpassed 3.2 million. This number will continue to rise as a result of ongoing Russian aggression.”

    In an earlier briefing, posted about midnight, British defence chiefs stressed that logistical problems “continue to beset Russia’s faltering invasion of Ukraine”. They also highlighted a series of other flaws in delivering Mr Putin’s invasion plan, which is believed to have led to the death of more than 7,000 Russian troops, according to reports from the US, as well as thousands of civilians, and many Ukrainian soldiers.

    “Reluctance to manoeuvre cross-country, lack of control of the air and limited bridging capabilities are preventing Russia from effectively resupplying their forward troops with even basic essentials such as food and fuel,” they said.

    The strength and success of the Ukrainian resistance also appears to have been underestimated by the Kremlin. The Ministry of Defence said: “Incessant Ukrainian counter-attacks are forcing Russia to divert large number of troops to defend their own supply lines. This is severely limiting Russia’s offensive potential.”
     
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  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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  4. AroundTheWorld

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    Nobody should care what this guy's demands are. He is a war criminal, fascist and murderer who must not be trusted.
     
    Nook, dobro1229, No Worries and 5 others like this.
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    "I deemand loonger tehbul."
     
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  6. basso

    basso Member
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  7. basso

    basso Member
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  8. basso

    basso Member
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  9. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Since when has Russia shown any regard to their soldiers coming back alive?
     
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  10. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    high no. of Chinese Doctors leaving the US for Canada ,I wonder if its related to Ukraine
     
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  11. Blatz

    Blatz Member

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    Where is that coming from?
     
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  12. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    Provincial health force, Health match applicants
     
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  13. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    The basso commodore suragothop and mojomans of this board would welcome WWIII so long as they have some basis to blame or criticize Biden.
     
  14. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Wow...my lost brothers you've drank too much of the koolaid.

     
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  15. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Are you seriously basing this on match day numbers?
     
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  16. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Russia could end this right now by just withdrawing. But Putin and his enablers won’t stop until every free Ukrainian is dead or subjugated no matter the cost.

    China, India, Syria, Iran, UAE, and any other country supporting Russia morally or financially can go to hell.
     
  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    If I am Ukraine, I never agree to disarmament. Russias demands are those of a country desperate to get a victory believing it can leverage the shelling of civilians centers as leverage. Absolutely disgusting.

    The other demands you have to take into consideration. Crimea is already in Russian hands. Maybe best to let the breakaway republics go given they will vote for pro-Russian leaders. But I don't think Putin will uphold any deal anyway.

    If I am Zelensky, my goal would be to do what's need to get to a ceasefire. I say, ok, everything is on the table, but to discuss them face to face there must be a complete ceasefire first. You know Russia will use a ceasefire to reorganize and resupply, but Ukraine can use it to at least evacuate the cities and prevent more civilian casualties.
     
  18. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I don’t think Ukraine can survive without taking the offensive to Moscow. And I have 0 belief any power including NATO intends to take the fight to Moscow.
     
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  19. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    You agree to it so he withdraws these conscripts and then build up your deterrents in secret.
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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