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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Literally Russia is destroying itself it might become so weak that it flips to democracy????? oh please please please.

    The panic is real - the ONLY thing they have is nukes - and so do we - it looks like their military was build for WW2, not modern warefare, this is a lesson for them - they need to get back in their box, pay reparations to the Ukraine and try to prove they can be part of a civilized world, or they need to fall.


    DD
     
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  3. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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  4. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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  5. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Great now the NRA is going to use this for their advertising except they ran out of Russian money.
     
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Shiny yellow metal
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-question-can-russia-sell-its-huge-gold-pile
     
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  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It is time for the Europeans to step up and provide their own muscle. It is absolutely pathetic that they cannot defend themselves against a single nation with the GDP approximating that of South Korea. Sure, let our nuclear umbrella under NATO provide them with deterrence from nuclear attack. But in terms of conventional forces, why can't these people pay for and staff their own defense? They are collectively far wealthier and have a far larger population than Russia does.

    It makes no sense that in the year 2022 we would take it upon ourselves to send American troops, weapons and money in vast amounts to defend the Europeans - because they will not do it for themselves. Immediately after WWII, these nations were literally devastated and they were unable to defend themselves. It is over 75 years later, and they still can't.

    It is time for that to change. Starting right now.

    But for some strange reason, the establishment leaders in Washington do not seem to want to do that. They want us to weapon up and get ready to go to war, and probably actually go to war. There is something very wrong with the way they are thinking about all of this.
     
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  8. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Long interview.

    Note to SCWs: Susan Glasser speaks in full sentences and well reasoned paragraphs ... an obvious tell sign for a ... global elitist.

    Money shot quote: "Putin's Holy War to restore Russia's Lost Empire."

    My developing opinion is that it is the world's best interest that the Ukraine War ends with Putin (or whoever replaces him) suing for peace. For that to happen, the Russian army must be completely shredded in Ukraine. Anything less, and Putin (or whoever replaces him) will be invading Ukraine again within the decade.

     
    #5948 No Worries, Mar 17, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2022
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  9. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    This is how we did it in Desert Storm -- kind of impressive to watch.
     
  10. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Don't we view Russia as one of our biggest threats? If so, then it makes perfect sense that we would want to restrict Russian expansion.
     
  11. dmoneybangbang

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    Plot twist, China takes Russia’s eastern frontier and it’s vast resources.
     
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  12. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    The difference is Ukrainians are defending their country from evil with their weapons, not killing their own out of rage like here.
     
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  13. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    AroundTheWorld, Ubiquitin and B-Bob like this.
  14. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    I couldn't agree more that Europe should be able to take care of it's own ****, especially on it's own doorstep, especially given the history of Euro-centric wars over the past ~250 years.

    As for the US; let me add an immortal quote:

     
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  15. Major

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    Ukraine by itself is holding off Russia pretty well. I think Europe is pretty well positioned for a conventional war - the entire problem is nukes, which we have asked them not to build in our attempts at non-proliferation.

    You seem to not understand the basic nature of alliances. When 9/11 hit, Europeans offered their support - troops, guns, staging areas, etc for the US too. It works both ways. Europe has land that the US needs for its strategic defense. The US has resources that Europe needs. It's a mutually beneficial deal. And has brought about the most peaceful era in human history for the past 50+ years. Seems like a solid investment instead of ending up in world wars that kill tens of millions of people.
     
  16. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    I saw a documentary about Desert Storm a few years ago and boy did it scare the hell out of the CCP at the time. It was amazing to see a worldwide coalition take down an adversary with absolute precision like that...in the early 90s.
     
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  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    The point I am trying to make is that it's not "First Ukraine" but there are many other places where these atrocities happen - even by Russia. Georgia, Chechnya, Syria were all before Ukraine. And Georgia was certainly an invasion just like Ukraine - many of the tactics Russians used in Ukraine were developed in Georgia.

    In any case, I wasn't speaking in terms of military aid but rather that people make comments such as, "I've never seen this kind of horror practiced on children" and that bothers me because of how common and pervasive it is, and when people say, well, "we're talking about in Europe" or "when a country invades another" - you can see how that comes across right?

    We see Putin as an evil man - now. But we didn't see him that way before he invaded Ukraine even though he was responsible for horrific crimes. We see people as evil based on large part our strategic interests. And we are not the only ones who fall into this trap. This is why India and China don't see Putin as evil, and many Middle Eastern countries see us as MORE EVIL than Putin based on our activities in the middle east the last 50 years.

    So my preference is to remove all those things based on perspective, and focus on the base issues and our strategic interests. We don't typically act militarily to prevent humanitarians crisis unless it's in our strategic interests.
     
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  18. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    On sanctions and China

    Blinken: Standard for lifting sanctions is an 'irreversible' Russian withdrawal : NPR

    He insisted that U.S. sanctions against Russia are "not designed to be permanent," and that they could "go away" if Russia should change its behavior. But he said any Russian pullback would have to be, "in effect, irreversible," so that "this can't happen again, that Russia won't pick up and do exactly what it's doing in a year or two years or three years."

    ...

    The U.S. says it has been working to ensure that Russia receives no help to escape its military and economic predicaments. U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan met on Monday with his Chinese counterpart, discussing matters that ranged from Ukraine to Taiwan. Blinken did not characterize the meeting, but did offer a warning to Beijing.

    "China's already on the wrong side of history when it comes to the Ukraine," he said. "If China actually provides material support in one way or another to Russia in this effort, that would be even worse, and that's something we're looking very carefully at."

    Blinken did not disclose any direct U.S. contact with Russian leader Vladimir Putin. "There are always ways of communicating," he said. "Diplomacy ultimately is going to have to be part of the solution to this. But that really depends on Vladimir Putin engaging."
     
  19. Invisible Fan

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    China wants to look badass but won't commit unless they have clear win conditions. This doesn't give them much while they're wracked with covid and rigging their election and constitution.

    How much discount gold and oil can they take from Russia on the downlow? As much as they can without getting a military commitment in return.
     
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  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    When I am in Texas I will gladly go to dinner with you.
     

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