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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Now a law. Putin authoritarian shifting back to Soviet Communism. Sure way to drive away current and potential future investors waiting for this war to end.

    Russian airlines to fly $10 billion worth of foreign-owned planes
     
  2. basso

    basso Member
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  3. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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    Spoke to a friend in Shanghai last night. They are without question feeling it. He tried to downplay it last night but started opening up the more we talked.

    Tried to downplay shutdowns due to Covid too but also started admitting more the longer we talked. I think he was a little paranoid due to us having to speak on WeChat.

    Seems as though they’re kinda pissed at everyone and feel like they’ve been put in the middle of it all.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Well his money has been frozen, the money of his oligarchs has been frozen. His economy has largely been sanctioned and Western companies have pulled out of his country.

    He brought this upon himself, but him responding by keeping and seizing everything left isn’t a surprise. He will never allow the West back into Russia. He will likely run to the arms of the CCP and be in their debt as they rebuild Russia like they did Africa.
     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Their government put them in the middle of it.
     
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  6. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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    Oh for sure. They just walk this fine line of knowing, admitting on their terms, all while still staying loyal to their country regardless of the goings on.

    I have another friend there who is the opposite. She very much loves her country but challenges all the garbage. She really pushes and I actually worry for her at times.
     
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  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Don't you think it's odd that she praises Putin and defends him, as well as buys into Russian propaganda that the US is funding bioweapons research in Ukraine? Or do you trust her and Russia on this point? Don't you think it's odd how popular she is in Russia - to the point that they create bots to support her campaign?

    You buy into your party's conspiracy theory's around Clinton Cash and Burisma...yet despite all this smoke around her, don't you think it's a bit odd how much she seems to be a Russian sympathizer on a consistent basis?

    I don't know if she's a Russian agent or not - her support for Putin is just bizarre. I think she's either incredibly naive or incredibly dangerous.
     
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  8. basso

    basso Member
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  9. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Everything I learned in international poly sci and economics is now a lie.
     
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  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It isn't a lot of money from Elena Branson, but the question is why does Branson support her? She made two contributions.

    Branson was indicted last week with Willfully Evaded FARA Registration for Nearly a Decade, Working to Advance the Interests of the Russian Government While Receiving Tasking and Funding from High-Level Russian Officials. So she isn't someone that anyone that cares about the USA or democracy should want to be associated with.

    As for Tulsi, she simply isn't educated enough on the issues. Her comments on Ukrainian bio-warfare is incredibly irresponsible and ignorant. Someone that represents and leads should be smarter than that. It is insulting and dangerous.
     
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  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    No, her receiving an unsolicited couple contribution from a woman charged with Willfully Evaded FARA Registration for Nearly a Decade, Working to Advance the Interests of the Russian Government While Receiving Tasking and Funding from High-Level Russian Officials isn't proof of treason.

    The bigger issue is the fact that Tulsi ignorantly or willfully parrots known false Russia propaganda. She is incredibly irresponsible.
     
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  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Putin doesn't trust the West, he isn't going to want to let the West influence or have some degree of control in Russia.

    I know we look at this as short sighted, but that isn't likely how he sees it at all. He views the West as an enemy of Russia. That is part of the reason that he has invaded the Ukraine.

    He will try to forge economic ties with CCP and India and Africa.

    The CCP is going to be in the middle and may have to ultimately make a choice they want to avoid.
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It was headed this way anyway.... but yes it has changed and lines are being drawn.

    The problem is that I am not so sure that in 20-30 years that the West will be stronger than the East as it was in the last Cold War.

    You have the USA, Canada, Western Europe, Israel, Japan and a spattering of other countries on one side.

    On the other side you have China, Russia, India, Africa and some Middle Eastern nations.

    The CCP is already trying to avoid a Cold War (which is interesting because they have a lot of responsibility for the current mess), but ultimately they will not be able to remain neutral. They do not trust the West and they will need someone to blame for their economic issues in the future.

    CCP, Russia and China are MASSIVE population hubs and are three of the largest and strongest militaries in the world.

    The USA is obviously the strongest military by far in the world, but the rest of the Western alliance isn't all that wonderful.

    We already are seeing Germany greatly increase their spending for the military and I expect we will see Japan and other nations do the same.

    The likely outcome is the continued growth of influence for the USA and China.

    The losers are the citizens around the world.
     
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  14. Invisible Fan

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    Do you mean India?

    Also, Russia is dying a slow death. They need to clean house or their pop growth will continue to stagnate under corruption and war.

    Americans have plenty of reasons for our decline...over financialization, corrupt millitary industrial complex with few new innovations, aging pop, crippling debt.

    We really need a (cultural, economic, political) reset unless we want to relive 20 years of 1st round Rockets mediocrity.

    I think we deserve it, and our heads are far up our asses for us not to see it until we suffer a catastrophic military loss. Not a slow death like Afghanistan, but a carrier busting, field flattening loss that Americans will **** their pants and question what they've done for the latter half of their lives.

    Hope it doesn't happen while I'm still alive. But if it does, I share my role in it.

    Or maybe a national existential crisis is what the doctor ordered.
     
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  15. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    This is genocide! Putin's troops are blatantly targeting civilians. Should the world sit back and watch? I hope if it ever happens in America other countries don't say, "We don't get involved in other people's wars."

     
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  16. basso

    basso Member
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    what does CCP stand for, if not China?
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yes, I meant India and not China twice.

    As for Russia.... it may be dying a slow death, but that is really bad for the world as well.... as having a potential revolution or bloody change in power with a nation that has half the nukes in the world is FAR from ideal. I also am not so sure Russia will suffer a slow death is they have strong trade allies in China and India. Those are huge population centers and rapidly growing economies. Russia has crude and it will have a lot of wheat to sell and stay a float. I think there is just a lot of instability there but with support from the CCP, it is very likely that whoever takes over Russia will be of the sort that has CCP support.

    As far as US decline, I have heard of the US decline for my entire life. I heard it during periods of US growth and influence. I have read books written in the 1950's and 1960's that claimed the same. At some point the USA will cease to be powerful but that isn't the case now. The whole world is going through periods of ups and downs and the USA is no different. Americans are very hard on themselves in some ways and very easy in other ways.
     
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  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The CCP is the Chinese Communist Party..... they are the government of China, they do not stand for all of the people of China.... they are not democratically elected. There is a distinction. Same as saying that in WWII the Nazi Party did not stand for all German people.
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    The US is positioned to last a long time with its borders, water and resources. Assuming nuclear war is off the table, our dangers are more from within than a real threat of invasion.

    The carrier buster scenario would still have the same effect if our power projection shrinks to only the Americas.

    Not terrible, but not great.

    ...Maybe Steve Francis level of great.
     
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  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Sad news...

     
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