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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Solid point. Capitulation to Putin is his mo.
     
  2. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Americans did not fight either Iraq or Afghanistan because of “atrocities” and to say so is a serious misrepresentation. We fought Iraq the first time because of the serious disruption to oil, and we later invaded (yes, invaded) Afghanistan and Iraq in response to 9/11. Our intentions (and by our I mean both the politicians and the voters) were hardly noble - the voters wanted revenge for 9/11 and the politicians indulged that while also smelling opportunities for greater control over Middle Eastern Oil and huge contracts for their business interests. No American gave a **** about the oppression of women or ethnic minorities in either of those countries beyond a token and momentary “How barbaric!!’ when that oppression was brought to their attention
     
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  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    While women are oppressed and have been denied many of the opportunities of men for power in human's patriarchal history, there's plenty of genocidal women who have committed horrible war crimes throughout history.

    Given power, I believe the sexes are truly equal.
     
    LosPollosHermanos likes this.
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    LOL at the normies and how they just gobble up the mainstream media's information campaigns...

    I view a political leader's job as to keep the world out of war. Trump was the best at this in decades. Biden is getting trampled on because he is simply not respected. He is viewed as weak and feeble. Even Trevor Noah is out there saying Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine with Trump in charge... because Trump was so unpredictable. That was a strong deterrent. Biden's out there worried about climate change and pronouns while the world burns...
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Not sure why you are disagreeing with yourself. Your point is solid. Capitulation to Putin is Trump's mo.
     
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  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    I don't. Not for a second. Hell, even in the US over 70% of mass shootings, serial killers, bombers, and people murdered are by men. They just have more violent tendencies.
     
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  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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  8. Buck Turgidson

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    Deckard and deb4rockets like this.
  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Saddam was a genocidal leader too.

    I wouldn’t be so bold to say Americans didn’t give a **** about the plight of middle eastern people.

    However what Putin is doing is worse.
     
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  11. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Well, he is right, you know. But those mean tweets!

     
  12. right1

    right1 Member

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    Well sh**. Apparently, I and my group of lifelong friends (two of whom signed up for the marines because of school girls getting blown up and shot by the Taliban) are the only decent Americans left in this God-forsaken place. The rest these so-called Americans sound like a bunch of callous, self-serving **ckheads. Reading the local & national news, though, leads me to believe this might be the case.

    Note: A lot of my family falls into the callous **ckhead category.
     
  13. dc rock

    dc rock Member

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    This is not hard to believe despite it coming from someone like Bolton. Remember Trump’s embarrassing NATO summit where he fought with (and was ridiculed by) other world leaders?

     
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  14. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Bolton is such a sorry POS for never speaking out when it mattered most. Even now he would still vote for Trump if he was the GOP candidate, even though he knows what a horrible leader, compulsive liar, and Putin loving as*hole he is.
     
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  15. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    You can add Barr to this as well.
     
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  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I am actually surprised that they didn't bring up Indira Gandhi who ordered the very bloody assault on the Golden Temple.
     
  17. basso

    basso Member
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  18. FranchiseBlade

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    Let's start right at the beginning. At the beginning of 2016 a Republican representative from Texas proposed an amendment that would increase and strengthen sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine issue.

    This is part of what that amendment said.
    That was way back in 2016. Trump's staffers worked the Trump Delegates to get that amendment tabled. They eventually included some words but removed the part of the amendment that supported sending arms and military equipment to Ukraine. That was back in 2016. Obviously that helped Putin. At the time.

    Trump also hired Paul Manafort who worked for the former undemocratic leader of Ukraine. The guy before Zelensky.

    Of course the one issue on Trump's mind at every negotiation and talking point is NATO and making sure it doesn't expand.
    Trump weakened NATO talked about the U.S. leaving NATO. Putin has long sought to isolate the U.S. from its European allies.

    Trump was against Montenegro joining NATO. He said that Montenegro were a very aggressive people and questioned whether the U.S. should be obligated by article 5 of NATO.

    Trump called NATO a protection racket.

    Trump even advocated trade war with European nations. He said the EU was created to take advantage of the United States.

    Trump downgraded the status of the EU ambassador of the U.S.

    Trump joined Russia in supporting Brexit. Putin's goal has long been to cause division within the US and its allies. Our intel has reported as much repeatedly.

    Trump spoke in favor of Russia taking the Crimea. Said that Putin did a great job and that he believed the people of Crimea would rather be better off in Russia.

    He encouraged Russian interference with the election.

    Trump refused to admit Putin was a killer.

    In 2017 Trump gave Russian officials classified information about ISIS which could have exposed some of our intelligence gathering sources. The intel had been in cooperation with Israel who hadn't authorized handing it over. The intel had been given to us by Israeli forces. The only press allowed to cover the meeting was the Russian state-owned press.

    Remember when Trump proposed a joint cyber-security unit with RUSSIA?

    Of course the disastrous Helsinki meeting where Trump publicly sided with Russia over his own United States intelligence.

    When Russia expelled hundreds of our diplomats. Trump actually thanked him.

    Trump supported pro-Russian anti-Democrat parties in Europe including Viktor Orban, Sebastian Kurz, who is also pro-Russian, and Marine Le Pen

    Trump suggested that if France would leave the EU they could have better trade deals with the United States.

    Even when sanctions were approved by both houses of congress. Trump opposed them. He made further efforts to try and get them repealed. Issued an Executive order Undermining proposed sanctions in regards to election interference.

    He called the CAATSA sanctions deeply flawed as it was passed in both houses and he wouldn't be able to hold on to a veto. Once the sanctions were passed, he failed to implement them. His Treasury department never wrote the report detailing the additional sanctions they would take and various other punitive sanction options against Russia.

    Trump eliminated the sanctions Coordinator. He gutted the whole team which had been 5 people to one mid-level staffer who worked only part time.

    Trump's defense of Russia and against the sanctions help serve Putin's goal of legitimizing his regime.

    Trump attempted to hide details of meetings with Russia from the 2017 Hamburg meetings and the 2018 G20 meeting in Argentina.

    Trump congratulated Putin on his fraudulent election.

    Trump withdrew from Syria leaving it open for the Russians.

    Trump spread Russian misinformation about Ukraine

    Trump froze U.S. aid for Ukraine. He eventually relented. Trump's state department said that it was because it harmful to the relationship with Russia.

    Trump advocated for Putin and Russia to join the G7.

    Trump withdrew from the INF treaty just as Russia and Putin wanted.

    Trump withdrew from the Open Skies treaty.

    Trump directed the CIA to share more intelligence information with Russia.

    In 2020 Trump started plans to remove U.S. troops from Germany.

    This is just a small list and doesn't include things that helped Putin by simple negligence such as the Trumps unsecured iPhone that he used to conduct Government business.

    I could write for hours and hours on all Trump did that served Putin's goals.
     
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  19. basso

    basso Member
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  20. dmoneybangbang

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    John Bolton seems to think Trump enabled Putin.
     
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