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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Putin warns…. Everybody ….all the time …about everything

    Not seeing why the news still hasn’t figured out how to cover this guy. The jerk literally is shelling Chernobyl. What else needs to be said about this guys penchant for harming anyone and everyone??
     
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  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    It’s only a matter of time just like with Covid that the right will figure out that they have an opportunity to divide America to seek political gain here and will take it.

    I bet money now that within Two weeks the GOP and Fox will find something… anything they can use as disinformation to portray Ukrainian involvement and support as a Democrat plot.
     
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  3. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Sweet Lou 4 2 likes this.
  4. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    What you are doing is not speculation?
     
  5. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    My favorite thing about the right's posturing is that they still blame Clinton for anything because they know she's a better target to make people angry.
     
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  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Not saying you are wrong on any of this, and I do think you know your stuff on the military situation. If Russia isn't flying that many air missions into Ukraine it does beget the question - then why is it so critical for us to create a no-fly zone? Seems Russians aren't really using their airforce to inflict the damage. I read an interesting article hear that largely aligns with what you write: https://rusi.org/explore-our-resear...rce-actually-incapable-complex-air-operations

    That said you are still talking about the highest stakes game of chicken ever played in human history - at least since the Cuban missile crisis. No matter how much you may feel you know about Putin and what he would do, you can not be 100% sure he would not use nukes. You can't even be 99% sure.

    Regardless of anything - there is a chance that this escalates into a nightmare scenario and you ends up with millions upon millions of people suffering all around the world. The stakes are very high.

    You are talking about crossing a line that neither America/NATO and Russia has never crossed - directed armed engagement. Russia has avoid it with us, and we have avoided it with them. The idea that if we attack Russian forces there will not be a response is just honestly crazy. You are basically forcing their hand in a very dangerous way.

    We've been giving advanced weapons to Ukraine which has clearly had an impact. We have American forces being moved to NATO allies near Ukraine. You have American veterans going over to Ukraine to fight (I am not even sure that's legal). To your point, we're already getting very close to the line here. Do you really want to roll the dice with attacking Russian forces using NATO and American forces in direct confrontation?
     
  7. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    Agreed.

    Qanon is porting out 2 different but seemingly conflicting conspiracy theories right now:

    1. The war is a cover so that Trump and Putin can secretly destroy Deep State sex trafficking in the Ukraine.
    2. Putin is waging this war to destroy U.S. labs creating bioweapons in The Ukraine.

    How long until the Extreme Right starts running with one of these?
     
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  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    No
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Pure lunacy. I can't believe this is actually part of the GOP.
     
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  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    You sure are making a lot of definitive statements based on things you don't know will happen.

    And I am not in favor of a no-fly zone but you don't know what would happen either way.
     
  11. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I think this would be incredibly dumb and I hope they do it they would lose the suburbs and moderates like they did in 20/20.
     
  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Wow!

    How the heck is it not?
     
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  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Fox's Carlson was doing that. Took a pause. Now he's back (w/ the US biolab thing in Ukraine). Putin's MVP in America.
     
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  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The US AF is vastly superior to the rest of the world. We have more than the next 8 largest countries combined and if you account for level of technology and communication, the gap is even larger.

    I know that everyone wants to be conservative when discussing these types of things (which is smart), but the US military is light years ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to things like the air and sea.
     
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  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This isn't due to what's happening in Ukraine. They've been fighting since the breakup of the Soviet Union. It has gotten more hot in recent years. What is dangerous is if that conflict get's caught up in further conflct.

    Also my understanding is that Russia is backing Armenia and Turkey is backing Azerbaijan.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    The GOP just can't quit Putin no matter what:



    @basso
     
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  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    In almost elements of armed conflict the US has the capacity to trounce any other military. The only wildcard is use of nuclear, biological and chemical warfare. We know that Russia has a stated military doctrine supporting the use of tactical nuclear weapons as a way to "escalate to deescalate." That is their only weapon that would be effective against the US.

    IF we wanted to, we could put a few hundred thousand troops in Ukraine with massive air support and Russia wouldn't take one step forward.
     
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  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    These are all excellent points. I would also add that the US military 10-15 years ago changed their focus to being an extremely mobile military. The USA could be in position faster than any other military in the world.
     
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  19. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    We have been at war forever.
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Again this idea that because war is inevitable we might as well rush into it shows again a lack of patience regarding a very risky situation. A lot can still happen without us putting our troops into direct confrontation with Russia. Sanctions could end lead to Putin being replaced or overthrown. Ukrainians could mount a successful counter offensive. Zelensky could come to a negotiated agreement with Russia. The PRC could put diplomatic pressure on Russia that compels them to pull back. All of those things are either in the works already or very much within the realm of possibility.

    Honestly a lot of the rhetoric I'm seeing about how overwhelming powerful we are compared to Russia so that we could easily handle Russia and save the Ukrainians sounds to my ears awfully like what we heard in the buildup to the invasion of Iraq. Yes on paper we are much more powerful than Russia right now just like we ended up defeating Saddam rather easily. That doesn't mean everything is good. I've already outlined a scenario where even if everything goes how you and others have laid out, we establish a no-flyzone that works and Ukraine then successfully drives Russia out, we could still be bogged down in that region for a long time. And that is only one scenario. There are many many many worse scenarios.

    And yes Putin is the bad guy. Saddam was a very bad guy who invaded other countries and gassed his own people. That was what the Neocons kept on saying to get us into invading Iraq.

    I believe there is a saying about good intentions and a road that is apt.
     
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