Most of the strikes are from mobile launchers, artillery, land base missiles system, and not from planes. Unless a no-fly zone means also no land-base mobile launcher, artillery, missile systems zone, it's not going to be that effective in preventing civilian casualty. The political solution is up to Ukraine and Russia. It might be losing land. I don't know what's acceptable to them. See my comments in my response to Nook on improving Ukraine's defense.
He's invaded other nations before this one, and already invaded Ukraine prior to this. He's expressed his intention of getting back other areas. He is currently showing a willingness to use military force and had invaded Ukraine. My guess would be Moldova, but it could be any of the nations he's expressed an interest in claiming. That can be, but why sacrifice all of those other nations? Why turn your back on Ukraine when there are advantages to making the stand now. Nobody wants that. But if it has to happen, then it does. We are weaker simply reacting. As @Major said, we need to be proactive some of the time.
Ok, so play out the no-fly zone. How does that work? Do we only shoot down Russian planes that enter Ukrainian airspace and leave them alone when they go back to Russia? What if Russia, which has a bigger airforce that the rest of Europe, sends 50 planes into the no-fly zone. There's no way NATO could shoot down more than a handful. So our warplanes would face dogfights being outnumbers along with having to face SAMs that are within Ukraine and from potentially Belarus and Russian territory. NATO would take heavy loses and would struggle to establish air superiority according to most military experts. Do we take out SAM sites in Russia? Or do we let them fire at our aircraft and shoot us down without a response? Do we hit Russian artillery and missile launchers? In Ukraine? In Russia as well? If Russia retaliates with missile strikes against NATO bases from which we are enforcing the no-fly zone, and they take out the runways, what do we do? If they attack our carriers with cruise missiles what do we do?
I don't think it would be a NATO no-fly zone. Russia doesn't have a bigger air fleet than the US and its allies could put forward. We would coordinate with Ukraine to help keep their airspace clear. We would also make it clear that Russia risks escalation with pretty much the entire world. As long as Putin believes the west isn't willing to stand up to their aggression, they will continue to be aggressive, and issue ultimatums which we will have to back down from based on fear of escalation. Until we take some initiative that will always be the scenario. As has been mentioned, rarely is there such a clear cut case of defending the victim and a democratic nation that didn't provoke this at all.
You didn't answer all the questions I put forward there that are problematic. It's not just about who has more planes - there's logistical issues as well and Russia has a BIG airforce. They would have the tactical advantage to start by a mile.
I am definitely surprised that this war went from high likelihood of Kyiv falling within 72 hours to Day 15 with high Russian losses and Russians turning toward blowing up hospitals and targeting civilians over military indiscriminately. Ukrainians overwhelmingly reject ceding any territory to Russia.
United House OKs $13.6B for Ukraine in huge spending bill (msn.com) The House approved a massive spending bill Wednesday night that would rush $13.6 billion in U.S. aid to battered Ukraine and its European allies Sorry, no embedded tweet. I don't do the twitters
Can we be honest for a second? We all know Zelensky and Ukrainians understand the no fly zone. This talking point is a master class in strategic messaging designed to get the US directly involved… and I don’t blame Zelensky at all. The guy might never see his family again if the US does not enter the war. This is what Churchill did in WW2 as well to use messaging to try and pull the US in the war because without us, he believe England could fall and Hitler would publicly execute him. Zelensky today using language to say that we are accomplices really hammers home what he’s trying to do. I still don’t think Biden and NATO should do it though but with the embargo of oil and the equipment and the intelligence, I won’t be incredibly shocked if Putin attacks us first anyways. My guess would be a Navy or Air Force strike. For Putin’s narrative to work he needs us to be involved for his propaganda. He’s been baiting us for awhile and I think if Biden can be patient and not take the bait, Putin will lose his patience first and do something really stupid.
And if he manages to bait us in which I do think he (putin) is trying to do. Then you will see trump start his misinformation/propaganda crap to disrupt things from within. He's not done using trump yet
And what happens if Putin feels that his only chance is to start trying to hit NATO bases so they can’t launch planes from there? What happens if Putin feels that he need to go all in and decide to use unconventional weapons? As stated how much are we willing to gamble on being proactive?
This post is spot on about the risk. This is Russia’s back yard. Any air campaign they will rely heavily on bases, radar and SAM batteries in Russia or Belarus close to Ukraine. On the other hand NATO will be relying upon the same in NATO countries. We’re talking about planes and missiles flying at Mach speeds. What happens when an over zealous NATO pilot flies into Russian air space or vice versa? What happens if one of the combatants fires a missile from Ukrainian air space hit hits a target in Russia or Poland? Biden has said we will defend every inch of NATO territory so does that trigger that? Putin would love nothing better than to make this a war about defending Russia and a NATO missile striking in Russian territory give him that.
We can’t control what Putin thinks but we can decide our own actions. So far though he hasn’t attacked NATO directly. this is why I said war might be inevitable but I don’t want to hasten it.
Yeah, and I don't know if @Major @FranchiseBlade understand that Russia has more than 4,000 warplanes. This isn't Serbia, Iraq, nor Libya where establishing air superiority can be done in a day. This would possibly be one of the most massive aerial fights in the history of humanity. And Russian SAM batteries are elite not like what Iraq and Syria has. Oh Russia has stealth fighters too.
I didn't approve this. Quit giving all our damn money away! Here is how America handles money. We're authorizing $13.6 billion in aid. Wait...we don't actually have the money. Can we borrow $13.6 billion? Just add it to the deficit. Add it...to the decifit.
The sad reality is there is nothing we can do but arm Ukraine and try to bleed Russia to death. We should have spent the last 8 years building up their defenses. Sadly we had Trump who was just bent over by Putin.
