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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    I think he's simply trying to win the war that he's losing.
     
  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Tulsi Gabbard, who many of you lefties used to like, weighs in on the Biden regime's actions with regard to Ukraine. She makes some really good points.

    Tulsi Gabbard: Hillary Clinton, Washington War Machine Want To Turn Ukraine Into Another Afghanistan

    Former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard on the Russia-Ukraine conflict: "Nothing the Biden administration has done has helped make this situation better or helped de-escalate the situation which is why the only conclusion I can draw about why they have been completely silent and not engaging at all in this window of opportunity that President Zelensky opened last night -- what is happening before our eyes right now is exactly what they want to see continue. Why is that? Because it's good for the military-industrial complex. It makes these politicians look tough and really it allows them to have this proxy war with Russia, something that Hillary Clinton laid out just recently, what their aims are. This war machine, this power elite in Washington. They want to turn Ukraine into another Afghanistan, turn it into a killing field for this long term insurgency is supported and they bleed out and cripple -- kill as many Russians as possible for who knows how long. They are showing their real aim in the fact that they are not taking action right now to end this conflict."
     
  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    It's everyone's fault except Putin. That was her message before the invasion and sounds like after a brief silence, she's back on message.

    EDIT: I stand corrected - right after the invasion, she actually said this, in a very nice tone to Putin: President Putin, you've made your point, Ukraine and Russia respect and love each other very much, so I implore you to please stand down.
     
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  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Glad I'm missing whoever she is by proxy.
     
  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Putin is not the only person at fault here. Your media-inflamed mob-style obsession with Vladimir Putin to the exclusion of virtually anyone or anything else is a fault of yours, for example.

    You should open your mind to what Tulsi is saying here. Her observations are worthy of consideration on this.
     
  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Yes he is. No one made him invade Ukraine. Only he can stop the invasion. Also, the woman you liked so much made it a mission that it's not Putin's fault but everyone else.
     
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  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    You are a willing member of the current media led lynch mob style frenzy around this subject. You and many others here in this forum. You are all acting out based on your emotions. That is a bad way to approach this or any other important matter.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He is a great war time leader, regardless of what happens.

    The US government was offering him free/safe passage and he turned it down. He is inspiring and strong..... I have no idea how good he is outside of war, but he is an amazing war time President and deserves all the praise he is getting.

    Why?

    Prosper together? Russia isn't prospering and they have long attempted to take and dominate the Ukraine. They DO want to prosper, which is why they want to be associated with the prosperous Western Europe. It is kind of hard to keep ties with a nation that repeatedly attacks you.

    He could rule another decade easy, and he will likely decide who will replace him.

    They are trying to boost their economy..
     
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  10. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Thanks for the lesson on emotion by being emotional. Let's get back to logic. This seems to be your position:

    When a woman is being raped, is it anyone else fault except for the rapist? You said yes. Maybe you should be faulted if you decided to help her by throwing a knife to her for her to defend herself, but turns out, he got a gun and killed a bunch of people nearby.
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    This simply isn't true. I've posted plenty of data points showing airstrikes killing civilians. If there was a no-fly over Ukraine yesterday, the maternity ward doesn't get bombed by airstrikes today.

    Is it an escalation? Absolutely. So is Russia bombing civilians. And so is Russia apparently considering using chemical weapons. Russia is going to continue escalating on its own terms, unless the world starts defining their own terms. If we're willing to try to bankrupt Russia and endlessly arm Ukraine, Putin will eventually use every tool he's willing to use. The only endgames here are the West lets go of Ukraine, or we do whatever is necessary to end his ability to escalate the conflict.

    People talk about Putin needing a pretense to do make it seems like the West's fault. No one with free media is buying that. China's not getting involved regardless and doesn't want a war. His other allies don't need a pretense. And he's already telling his own people that it's the West's fault and blocking all other news. Putin doesn't need an excuse to do whatever he's going to do - he just goes and does it.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    .

    American President's know this........ and it is one of the weaknesses of having so many elections. Everything is viewed in the short term politically and voters are no different. Many of the puzzling things that the USA has done in regards to China are because of this and the CCP is well aware of it, as is Russia and the rest of the world.
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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  14. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    Take a page from the Russian playbook. Send in American troops in generic uniforms that don't identify their country of origin. They're just rogue elements who took up the fight...just like how Russia seized Crimea. Plausible deniability.
     
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  15. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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  16. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Our rapid election system is terrible. The nature of House elections makes it so that obstruction and radicalism are highly profitable.
     
  17. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    Bombing a maternity hospital with women and kids inside. Wow! Russia doesn't discriminate. Putin is a monster.
     
  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Again.

    The USA and Western Europe are not responsible for what is happening in the Ukraine.

    President Putin and Russia is responsible for what is happening in the Ukraine.

    I know it is popular to blame shift, especially when it comes to Russia.... but this is all on the Moscow dictator.
     

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