Democrats control the Fed gov, the same democrats who have relentlessly demonized O&G. Why would they, or any other country come to their rescue? This is politics, not patriotism.
Trump's Helsinki Humiliation. President Trump's press conference with Vladimir Putin was a disaster. And that was the assessment of many of his GOP allies. Why it matters: Trump had a chance to assert himself — and stand up for his countrymen — against foreign interference in our elections. He passed, and stood by as Putin boasted he preferred Trump over Hillary Clinton. "Yes I did [prefer Trump]. Because he talked about bringing the US-Russia relationship back to normal."— Putin to reporters Monday Play the tape... Over the course of the press conference, Trump: Sided with Russia over his own law enforcement. Turned a question on Russian election interference into a rambling dialogue on Hillary Clinton's email server and his electoral college votes. And stood by, nodding, while Putin repeatedly lied about election interference. What they're saying: John McCain: "[O]ne of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory." House Speaker Paul Ryan: "The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia..." Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell: "The Russians are not our friends and I entirely agree with the assessment of our intelligence community." House Foreign Affairs Committee chair Ed Royce: “I disagree with the president’s comments. There is simply no comparing the actions of the United States and Vladimir Putin." Rep. Will Hurd (R-Texas): "I never would have thought that the US President would become one of the ones getting played by old KGB hands." Fox Business host Neil Cavuto: "[D]isgusting. I’m sorry it's the way I feel. It's not a right or left thing, it’s just wrong." Dan Coats, Trump's director of national intelligence: "We have been clear in our assessments of Russian meddling in the 2016 election and their ongoing, pervasive efforts to undermine our democracy..." Flashback: Coats three days ago... "The warning lights are blinking red again
That's the problem. You see it as rescuing democrats vs helping Americans. So yeah, it's politics over patriotism. Better to screw your enemy over than do what's best for the country.
For those of you who are trying to engage in substantive discussion with @basso or @Commodore, or who are watching @HardenVolumeOne ’s sad YouTube videos, it’s rather pointless. You will find no context, no nuance, no understanding of the facts, I’m sure they will freely admit that they have prejudged every action by the Biden Asministration as a collosal failure, - right guys??? And their game is just a matter of which Nonsensical tweet to copy, or which idiotic YouTube video to link. I have found that one or two sentences is sufficient to explain to them that they are being stupid, again. And then they’ll post something else idiotic, and we will explain how that is also stupid. I mean I would really rather have some kind of a substantive discussion, but that’s not happening with people who have pre judged every action of the administration to be a total disaster.
HO HO HO ShamFisher just posted an Axios story and thought he made a good point! Now that's rich. You are upset that Trump didn't chastise Putin for spending approximately $200 to influence voters in Pennsylvania in the 2016 election? Are you aware that no collusion charges were brought against a single American for working with Russia in the 2016 election... despite 3 years of exhaustive investigations? Are you further aware that the Clinton campaign funded the disinformation campaign that ultimately led to these 3 years of investigations? And the media and intel agencies knew all along that it was a pack of lies, yet they still pushed it? Man, I wish America's problems were limited to Trump allegedly being too nice to Putin. That was mild. Now we are on the cusp of WWIII because Biden is so weak and has literally never in his life made a good foreign policy decision. It's very easy to fool the American liberal. They are people of strong emotions... emotions which crowd out their ability to reason. It's impossible to convince them that they've been fooled. I'll admit -- even my golden tongue has difficulty educating them on occasion. But not today. GOOD DAY
Except politicians always do what's best for themselves. You shouldn't question private citizens or corporations. They were not elected to public office. Granted you tend to be vocal on private companies shenanigans, however at the end of they day, we are not a socialistic country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Either way, the end game is the same. Subscribe your alliance to self serving jack holes all you want, but leave me out of it.
True we don’t know for sure what is said behind closed doors. For all we know Biden and Putin are actually taking orders from Elon Musk as plot to get Space X more business (easy Tinman I’m just being rhetorical) To be blunt it’s easy excuse to just speculate on what we don’t know. There’s nothing wrong with that but it’s not much basis for discussion. At that point you’re just substituting your own opinion as though it is evidence.
Saddam found a way out of sanctions bu getting defeated, getting caught and then executed. I agree if Ukraine agrees to Russia’s terms it’s a victory for them and a bad precedent. That said if the rest of the World continues to sanction Russia after a Ukrainian surrender term what impetus is there for Russia to not keep on fighting if they aren’t getting major relief back? At that point sanctions and other punitive measures about Russia are no longer about saving Ukraine but are only about punishing Russia.
What a bunch of HORSE ****....the Dems control the President and the House, the GOP controls the Senate, Manchin is a ****ing republican. DD
Russia doesn’t get to dictate what we do but that’s like saying that a bear I see at the campground doesn’t dictate what I can do but it still might not be a good idea to go have a picnic there.
On Saudi Arabia and the other gulf states. They are benefitting from high oil prices especially following the lowered demand during the pandemic. It’s not in their interest then to help out with trying to lower prices. Also give you that Russia was aligned with Syria and tacitly with Iran conflict between Russia and the US might benefit them in the Sunni Shia struggle in the Middle East. Given that the current administration has been critical of the Saudis regarding Yemen if both Russia and the US are weakened this gives them a chance to press on not only Yemen but also Qatar.
I'm wondering that as well, though any Ukrainian won't care about the latter if they're forced to surrender. As for Saddam, I doubt we can credibly engineer yet another poorly planned, internationally despised boondoggle to oust a dictator, let alone a nuclear power.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/08/politics/poland-jets-ukraine-russia/index.html Why is this public? Just move the jets to a base that the Ukranian Pilots can get to and allow them to fly them out, unimpeded....don't take credit or responsibility, just let Ukraine have them if they can get them......no announcement necessary. DD
Before I try to get to sleep which partly due to this thread will be difficult. From what I’m seeing both in this thread and in much of the the debate in this country there are too many people who frankly are Putin apologist. This doesn’t mean that they are in the pocket of Putin or are traitors but too many making excuses and shifting blame. Putin already was interfering in Ukraine well before Biden was President or even was Vice President. The security agreement wasn’t what suddenly made him decide to invade Ukraine. He already started doing so when Russia armed and funded separatists ten years ago. As repeatedly stated Biden can’t promise to make Ukraine part of NATO nor can he promise they never will be. Other NATO nations have a say and whatever Biden promises there is no guarantee later US Presidents might have a different opinion. Further even though some seem to ignore it but Ukraine is a sovereign country. If they want to join NATO they can certainly ask. That doesn’t mean they will get in but the US can’t stop them from saying they would like to be part of NATO. On the other hand I also think there are too many who who want things to happen faster and want us to engage more forcefully. Just because we want to save Ukraine and punish Putin caution is still extremely warranted. So while we don’t want Putin dictating what we can and can’t do the risks of all our war with Russia should be taken very seriously. I’ve brought this up before. I know some have served here and even saw combat. I wasn’t a soldier but I’ve seen the toll that war takes. It should be know surprise then that so many soldiers suffer PTSD that they take their own lives. And for the US that’s fighting enemies that don’t have air power, armor or much else beyond small arms and improvised explosives. Also war fought on credits with only a very small number of troops fighting. Honestly I don’t think this country is prepared to fight an all out war with Russia. While yes we have big advantages over Russia we also had big advantages over the North Vietnamese and taliban. Even though Saddams forces were defeated I doubt anyone thinks we left Iraq better than before. All of that is even before the possibility of a war going nuclear. And again I don’t think any of us here or even generals in the Pentagon know for sure how things will ultimately play out if the US and Russians start shooting at each other. It could end up being Russia collapses and Putins overthrown or it could be the end of civilization.
Has anyone brought up the new Russia "Z" symbol? As if they want their own version of the Nazi swastika symbol. “Z” Is the Symbol of the New Russian Politics of Aggression | The New Yorker
An excellent post. Putin has been working to destabilize Ukraine in order to insure he has a "puppet" ruling the country for many years, long before the last few US presidents took office. Eventually, losing his "puppet" ruler of Ukraine caused him to take more drastic action. On the other topic from your quote, what some simply don't understand is that it takes a unanimous vote by NATO members to bring another country into the alliance. The United States cannot simply bring that about on it's own. It requires a consensus among NATO members. The timeline below is accurate. It may help clarify for some how Ukraine, the EU, NATO, the United States and, yes, the Russian people ended up in this situation. From NPR: (Part One) Russia's at war with Ukraine. Here's how we got here Updated February 24, 2022 As Russian forces begin an all-out assault on Ukraine after months of troop buildup and failed diplomatic efforts by the U.S. and its European allies to head off conflict, the situation for Kyiv is the most high-stakes in the country's 30-year history. Since breaking from the Soviet Union, Ukraine has wavered between the influences of Moscow and the West, surviving scandal and conflict with its democracy intact. Now it faces its biggest test as Russia threatens its very existence as an independent country. Since the illegal annexation of the Crimean Peninsula in 2014, many Ukrainians have turned away from Moscow and toward the West, with popular support on the rise for joining Western alliances such as NATO and the European Union. But along the country's eastern border with Russia, separatists backed by Moscow took control of two regions in 2014. Violence in eastern Ukraine has killed more than 14,000 people in the years since, according to International Crisis Group research. Russia's recognition of the two regions' independence set the stage for moving its troops into Ukraine. Read on to understand how Ukraine came to where it is today. The 1990s: Independence from the Soviet Union 1989 and 1990 Anti-communist protests sweep central and Eastern Europe, starting in Poland and spreading throughout the Soviet bloc. In Ukraine, January 1990 sees more than 400,000 people joining hands in a human chain stretching some 400 miles from the western city of Ivano-Frankivsk to Kyiv, the capital, in the north-central part of Ukraine. Many wave the blue and yellow Ukrainian flag that had been banned under Soviet rule. July 16, 1990 The Rada, the new Ukrainian parliament formed out of the previous Soviet legislature, votes to declare independence from the Soviet Union. Authorities recall Ukrainian soldiers from other parts of the USSR and vote to shut down the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in northern Ukraine. 1991 Following a failed coup in Moscow, the Ukrainian parliament declares independence a second time on Aug. 24, a date that is still celebrated as Ukraine's official Independence Day. In December, Ukrainians vote to make their independence official when they approve the declaration by a landslide 92% of votes in favor. The Soviet Union officially dissolves on Dec. 26. 1992 As NATO allies contemplate adding central and Eastern European members for the first time, Ukraine formally establishes relations with the alliance, though it does not join. NATO's secretary-general visits Kyiv, and Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk visits NATO headquarters in Brussels. December 1994 After the Soviet Union's collapse, Ukraine is left with the world's third-largest nuclear stockpile. In a treaty called the Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine agrees to trade away its intercontinental ballistic missiles, warheads and other nuclear infrastructure in exchange for guarantees that the three other treaty signatories — the U.S., the U.K. and Russia — will "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine." 1994 to 2004 In 10 years as president, Leonid Kuchma helps transition Ukraine from a Soviet republic to a capitalist society, privatizing businesses and working to improve international economic opportunities. But in 2000, his presidency is rocked by scandal over audio recordings that reveal he ordered the death of a journalist. He remains in power about four more years. The 2000s: Wavering between the West and Russia 2004 The presidential election pits Kuchma's incumbent party — led by his hand-picked successor, Viktor Yanukovych, and supported by Russian President Vladimir Putin — against a popular pro-democracy opposition leader, Viktor Yushchenko. In the final months of the campaign, Yushchenko falls mysteriously ill, is disfigured and is confirmed by doctors to have been poisoned. Yanukovych wins the election amid accusations of rigging. Massive protests follow, and the public outcry becomes known as the Orange Revolution. After a third vote, Yushchenko prevails. January 2005 Yushchenko takes office as president, with Yulia Tymoshenko as prime minister. 2008 Following efforts by Yushchenko and Tymoshenko to bring Ukraine into NATO, the two formally request in January that Ukraine be granted a "membership action plan," the first step in the process of joining the alliance. U.S. President George W. Bush supports Ukraine's membership, but France and Germany oppose it after Russia voices displeasure. In April, NATO responds with a compromise: It promises that Ukraine will one day be a member of the alliance but does not put it on a specific path for how to do so. January 2009 On Jan. 1, Gazprom, the state-owned Russian gas company, suddenly stops pumping natural gas to Ukraine, following months of politically fraught negotiations over gas prices. Because Eastern and central European countries rely on pipelines through Ukraine to receive gas imports from Russia, the gas crisis quickly spreads beyond Ukraine's borders. Under international pressure to resolve the crisis, Tymoshenko negotiates a new deal with Putin, and gas flows resume on Jan. 20. Much of Europe still relies on Russian gas today. 2010 Yanukovych is elected president in February. He says Ukraine should be a "neutral state," cooperating with both Russia and Western alliances like NATO. 2011 Ukrainian prosecutors open criminal investigations into Tymoshenko, alleging corruption and misuse of government resources. In October, a court finds her guilty of "abuse of power" during the 2009 negotiations with Russia over the gas crisis and sentences her to seven years in prison, prompting concerns in the West that Ukrainian leaders are persecuting political opponents. (see Part Two)
(Part Two) 2014: The Maidan revolution and Crimea's annexation November 2013 through February 2014 Just days before it is to be signed, Yanukovych announces that he will refuse to sign an association agreement with the European Union to bring Ukraine into a free trade agreement. He cites pressure from Russia as a reason for his decision. The announcement sparks huge protests across Ukraine — the largest since the Orange Revolution — calling for Yanukovych to resign. Protesters begin camping out in Kyiv's Maidan, also known as Independence Square, and occupy government buildings, including Kyiv's city hall and the justice ministry. In late February, violence between police and protesters leaves more than 100 dead in the single bloodiest week in Ukraine's post-Soviet history. Ahead of a scheduled impeachment vote on Feb. 22, Yanukovych flees, eventually arriving in Russia. Ukraine's parliament votes unanimously to remove Yanukovych and install an interim government, which announces it will sign the EU agreement and votes to free Tymoshenko from prison. The new government charges Yanukovych with mass murder of the Maidan protesters and issues a warrant for his arrest. Russia declares that the change in Ukraine's government is an illegal coup. Almost immediately, armed men appear at checkpoints and facilities in the Crimean Peninsula. Putin at first denies they are Russian soldiers but later admits it. March 2014 With Russian troops in control of the peninsula, the Crimean parliament votes to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. A public referendum follows, with 97% of voters favoring secession, although the results are disputed. Putin finalizes the Russian annexation of Crimea in a March 18 announcement to Russia's parliament. In response, the U.S. and allies in Europe impose sanctions on Russia. They have never recognized Russia's annexation. It remains the only time that a European nation has used military force to seize the territory of another since World War II. April 2014 With some 40,000 Russian troops gathered on Ukraine's eastern border, violence breaks out in the eastern Ukrainian region of Donbas — violence that continues to this day. Russian-supported separatist forces storm government buildings in two eastern regions, Donetsk and Luhansk. They declare independence from Ukraine as the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic, though they remain internationally recognized as part of Ukraine. Russia denies that its troops are on Ukrainian soil, but Ukrainian officials insist otherwise. May 2014 The pro-West politician Petro Poroshenko, a former government minister and head of the Council of the National Bank of Ukraine, is elected Ukraine's president. He promotes reform, including measures to address corruption and lessen Ukraine's dependence on Russia for energy and financial support. Sept. 5, 2014 Representatives from Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany meet in Belarus to attempt to negotiate an end to the violence in the Donbas. They sign the first Minsk agreement, a deal between Ukraine and Russia to quiet the violence under a fragile cease-fire. The cease-fire soon breaks, and fighting continues into the new year. 2015 through 2020: Russia looms February 2015 The Minsk group meets again in Belarus to find a more successful agreement to end the fighting in eastern Ukraine, resulting in the Minsk II agreement. It too has been unsuccessful at ending the violence. From 2014 through today, more than 14,000 people have been killed, tens of thousands wounded and more than a million displaced. Together, the annexation of Crimea and the Russian-backed violence in the east have pushed Ukrainian public sentiment toward the West, strengthening interest in joining NATO and the EU. 2016 and 2017 As fighting in the Donbas continues, Russia repeatedly strikes at Ukraine in a series of cyberattacks, including a 2016 attack on Kyiv's power grid that causes a major blackout. In 2017, a large-scale assault affects key Ukrainian infrastructure, including the National Bank of Ukraine and the country's electrical grid. (Cyberattacks from Russia have continued through the present; the latest major attack targeted government websites in January 2022.) 2019 In April, comedian and actor Volodymyr Zelenskyy is elected president in a landslide rebuke of Poroshenko and the status quo, which includes a stagnating economy and the conflict with Russia. During his campaign, Zelenskyy vowed to make peace with Russia and end the war in the Donbas. His early efforts to reach a solution to the violence are slowed by U.S. President Donald Trump, who briefly blocks U.S. military aid to Ukraine and suggests to Zelenskyy that he should instead work with Putin to resolve the crisis. In a phone call with Trump in July 2019, Zelenskyy requests a visit to the White House to meet with Trump about U.S. backing of Ukraine's efforts to push off Russia. Trump asks Zelenskyy for "a favor": an investigation into energy company Burisma and the Bidens. A White House whistleblower complains, leading to Trump's first impeachment in December 2019. Several U.S. officials later testify that Zelenskyy was close to announcing such an investigation, though he ultimately demurs, saying Ukrainians are "tired" of Burisma. (see Part Three)
