Poland says it’s ready to deploy all their MiG-29 fighter jets to US air base in Germany From CNN's Sugam Pokharel, Kylie Atwood and Jennifer Hansler Poland said on Tuesday that it was ready to deploy — immediately and free of charge — all their MiG-29 fighter jets to the US Air Force’s Ramstein Air Base in Germany and place them at the disposal of Washington to provide them to Ukraine, according to a statement from the Polish foreign ministry. “At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes,” it added. The Polish government in the statement urged “other NATO Allies — owners of MIG-29 jets — to act in the same vein.” A top State Department official said Tuesday that Poland did not consult with the United States prior to issuing its statement about readiness to transfer jets to the US in Germany. “I saw that announcement by the government of Poland as I was literally driving here today,” Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland said during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing. “So to my knowledge, it wasn't pre-consulted with us that they plan to give these planes to us,” she said. “I look forward when this hearing is over to getting back to my desk and seeing how we will respond to this proposal of theirs to give the planes to us,” she said, noting that the US and Poland have been in consultations for a couple of days on this topic. A senior US defense official, meanwhile, told CNN that they've seen the Polish government’s announcement and "have nothing to offer at this time." More background: It remains unclear where the US will pull the F-16s from in order to possibly send them to Poland or other Eastern European countries in the near term. But members of Congress are supportive of the effort. Sen. Ben Cardin asked Nuland for the Biden administration to notify them if there were going to be any delays to getting these F-16s to Poland. Still, the complicated logistics behind the idea that both US and Polish officials have now discussed have yet been determined, two European diplomats told CNN. The Polish announcement comes after some Polish officials were frustrated by how forward leaning the US was on this subject over the weekend, the sources said. "In fact, we’re talking with our Polish friends right now about what we might be able to do to backfill their needs if, in fact, they choose to provide these fighter jets to the Ukrainians. What can we do? How can we help to make sure that they get something to backfill the planes that they’re handing over to the Ukrainians? We’re in very active discussions with them about that,” Secretary of State Tony Blinken said over on CBS on Sunday. The Poles believe that the visit Vice President Harris is making to Poland in the coming days would be a good time for the US to announce more details but did not know if that was going to happen or not, a Polish official said. Other countries that are in talks with the US about also partaking in a similar are conducting the conversations quietly, without raising expectations, said a central European diplomat. https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-08-22/index.html
I'm saying that the US never intended for Poland to ever even consider sending those planes, I mean the last they said was, "we're 100% ready to go they got our blessing, please Poland send those planes." And yet now it's a surprise to them that Poland actually said that they would send them. Yeah I'm real cynical of the fact that the US are actually going to go through with this and have planes be sent.
Also if you want to read between the lines that diplomat that said it was a surprise that the Poland gave the okay to send all those planes also said that Poland did this without consulting the us first. Why do you think Poland would have done this unilaterally? Could it have possibly because Biden didn't want them to send it he just wanted to save face, so when Poland goes ahead and says we'll send all our planes then biden's got to explain how come they ain't coming because they ain't coming -- believe that.
I missed that part. What I read (and I have not followed this closely) was the US has a green light to replace Poland's jet. My initial assumption was Poland would directly transfer that to Ukraine (or as earlier reported, Ukraine pilots would pick them up and fly them back - which sounds very strange to me but I'm not questioning anything I have very little knowledge on). Then I read the comment from the Pentagon and it's kind of jell with my understanding - these should be transferred by road, not through the air, at least not from a NATO country. The report also suggests that wasn't the agreement - it's confusing and might be due to miscommunication. EDIT: this is what Blinken said yesterday below. It sounds like they were expecting Poland to give the planes directly to Ukraine, not to the US first. "That gets a green-light," Blinken said in an interview with "Face the Nation" when asked whether the Polish government, a member of NATO, could send fighter planes to Ukraine. "In fact, we're talking with our Polish friends right now about what we might be able to do to backfill their needs if in fact they choose to provide these fighter jets to the Ukrainians. What can we do? How can we help to make sure that they get something to backfill the planes that they are handing over to the Ukrainians?" Pentagon says Poland's jet offer for Ukraine 'not tenable' - ABC News Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby said in a statement that the prospect of jets departing from a U.S./NATO base in Germany to fly into airspace contested with Russia in the Ukraine war is concerning. He said it's not clear to the U.S. that there is a substantive rationale for it. The U.S., he said, will continue to talk to Poland about the matter. “To my knowledge, it wasn’t pre-consulted with us that they plan to get these planes to us,” said U.S. Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland, who told lawmakers she learned of the proposal as she was driving to testify about the Ukraine crisis before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “I look forward ... to getting back to my desk and seeing how we will respond to this proposal of theirs, to get the planes to us,” Nuland said. Under one scenario that has been floated, Poland would deliver the fighter jets to the U.S. base in Germany, where they would be repainted and flown to a non-NATO, non-European Union country. Ukrainian pilots would then come to fly them to Ukraine, under that proposal.
****ing America. I'm so disillusioned by this I don't even know what the ****ing say I don't even know what the ****ing say right now. Ukraine is out there fighting for their lives and this is a political ****ing issue **** you **** you.
The concern with transferring the MiGs is that Russia has already said that he would planes on military missions from another country as that country entering the fray. It's not clear what that means for Poland or another country just flying the plane and landing them in Ukraine but it is clear the Polish and other NATO commanders do consider that a risk and an invitation for Russia to attack the bases those planes flew from. I think we should figure out a way to get those planes to Ukraine and I'm guessing there are replacement F16's and other planes for Poland. As always though is considering how much of an escalation this is. There is very good reason to be cautious about this.
Poland is putting the onus on the US to transfer the planes to Ukraine. That is why they are flying them to Ramstein. Once there they are the US's problem.
The only question is whether any of the major news networks are going to call the US out about this I'm guessing that they won't I'm guessing that there won't be a word about this.
And here is the problem from the article linked in what's post. It's not just the military issue. It's a legal issue. Nobody got 30 days for this. Congress would have to act in some way to make this happen and the military has to find a way to get it to Ukraine. It's a logistic and communication issue at this time. The idea that this was all done for show and is immoral - I reject that based on what I have read. As a note on what is frustrating and why I think some think JUST DO IT - the US is not a country run by a dictator that can do anything the leader wants it to do - it's full of "red tape" (and usually those are there for good reasons). If that donation were possible, it was unclear whether the U.S. could then transfer the jets to Ukraine, or whether the jets needed to be accepted, declared as excess, and then go through a process of transfer for excess defense articles. If the MIGs are able to be classified as excess defense articles, the president is required to give Congress 30 days' notice of a transfer, said Franklin Turner, a government contracts lawyer at McCarter & English. He added that there was "a tremendous amount of red tape that clogs this process" and that Biden's ability to cut through it was constrained by existing legal requirements.
