Ironically, a tornado just took out power to our house. They will definitely need off grid power to make this work.
It is still about the Ukranian people - that is true........but they are not more important than any other people - it is just that the Ukraine is more important to us as a nation - is that fair? Not on a human level - but that is not what governments are about - they are about protecting their countries interests first and foremost - not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. And Putin is Evil, so are the others mentioned - the difference is in Putin's power - he is much more powerful militarily than any other with the exception of perhaps Hitler....at that time....and we tried like hell NOT to fight in that war, and ended up having to. Sanctions in that war (Embargo of Japan) led to us being attacked......history repeating itself. DD
You will never hear or see me defend the full scale invasion of Iraq. I also refuse to vote for anyone that voted for the Iraq use of force. However, we had some legit reasons to run smaller scale military operations into Northern Iraq. I would suggest researching Operation Viking Hammer. The problem was the US government had talked up Saddam and WMDs to such a degree they couldn't change the narrative on what should have been the target in Iraq. We didn't get the intel on Ansar Al-Islam until the CIA and 10th Special Forces landed in Northern Iraq to link up with the Kurds and prep the battle space a few months before the invasion. The Kurds said hey... you got some bad guys in the mountains over there near the Iranian border. So we started gathering intelligence and ran recon missions. Bush totally failed by denying operations against the real threat in Iraq because he didn't want to tip off Sadam that we were in country or invading soon by having airstrikes or a ground attack in Northern Iraq. There was a WMD factory and research center in Iraq... just not under control of Sadam. It was in a territory controlled by former Al Qaeda members that spun off their own more hardcore group called Ansar Al Islam. Lots of these bad guys escaped out of the mountains and landed in Fallujah, Ramadi, etc before we launched our attack in Northern Iraq which wasn't until after the main invasion had already started. They became key leaders in the insurgency in Iraq. Many of them later joined Isis.
What kind of attacks are these? I read they use artillery, rockets, cluster munition, missiles that are launched from the ground, possibly even from Russia. So the question is how is Russia's military attacking these civilian areas? Are they mostly or even exclusively launched from the ground? If so, establishing a no fly zone cannot stop them.
What is the end of Russian's ambitions then? Is he going to invade Poland? Estonia? Democracy? You want to go to war to save Democracy? Like how we went to Nicaragua to destroy the democratically elected gov't by supporting ruthless death squads that murdered and ravages innocent civilians? It sounds like to me you are the one who is naive. The idea of saving democracy is just a pretext to something else. War isn't the answer to every problem. It makes no sense here especially when we can't lift a finger for others. You want democracy - then let's overthrow the Saudis, ok? Those guys - our supposed friends - hate democracy. When we can stand up to them, let's talk about defending democracy. Until then keep calling other people naive.
The whole idea of establishing a no-fly zone is ridiculous. So we're going to wipe out the Russian air force? We're going to send fighters into Russian air space to take out their bombers and fighters? We're going to launch missiles into Russia to take out their SAM sites? And you think they aren't going to launch a retaliatory strike on NATO air fields? WTF are these no-fly zone people thinking? But democracy!
They are all airstrike. Question is it from the ground or from warplanes. I read Russia have launch over 500 missiles into Ukraine. From two days ago: US says Russia has fired 480 missiles into Ukraine so far. 'How can you sleep, world?' (onmanorama.com) Washington: US officials say Russia has fired 480 missiles at Ukraine. Specifically, the official said that the majority of the Russian missile launches since the war began - or more than 230 of them - are coming from mobile systems within Ukraine. More than 150 missiles have been fired from within Russia, more than 70 from Belarus and only a very small number from ships in the Black Sea.
I don't get your question. Airstrikes are, by definition, not ground based. An airstrike comes from an aircraft. Artillery and ground-based rockets are not airstrikes. But if you really wonder how a no-fly zone helps save civilians, militaries establish air superiority before sending ground forces in. If Russia can't establish air superiority, it limits their ability to attack on the ground, which then prevents them from killing people, military and civilian alike. There's a reason almost every major humanitarian mission (Bosnia, Syria, etc) involves establishing no-fly zones.
A russian aircraft can launch missiles from Russia - my understanding is their range can be many hundred of kilometers. Are you suggesting a no-fly zone over Russian territory? By the way, you do realize the no-fly zone in Syria was enforced by Russia and part of that was a no-fly zone for US aircrafts lol. So you are using an example that was basically against us.
I really don’t know and I don’t think any of us know when to intervene and when not to. That’s kind of my point. It’s a judgement call and it usually is public moral sentiment mixed with national interests. I don’t know if you’re trying to make me seem like a hypocrite about Yemen etc but believe me… that sh$t disgusts me too and I hate our bizarre relationship with the damn bone saw Saudis. I’m getting more high level at implications of massively world changing conflict like WW2 because that’s what the US being involved here would look like. We just don’t know if society is in a better place after or not, but like FDR in WW2 we decided to get involved and ultimately were attacked anyways which put us all in and life today is different because of that. This isn’t Yemen or Berma or whatever even though the atrocities might be worse there. The issue is two superpowers who are on a collision course and the potential for how we are governed as relatively free people could be on the line. One life in Yemen is not less or greater than a life in Ukraine or America but war with Saudi Arabia vs Russia is not equal in terms of what it means for all human existence on this planet potentially. Disagree with me or call me a hypocrite for not thinking this way but to me I think we are already in it with Russia (Putin’s anti democratic ideology more specifically) and acting soon feel like the right thing to do. I don’t support a full on war yet, but I’m thinking everything up to it should be on the table including drones, intelligence briefs/planning, training and resupplying via the Polish border, etc… which I think will make Putin attack NATO anyways, and there we go…
No I am not calling you specifically a hypocrite but rather anyone who claims we should take military action for reasons such as to save lives or to save democracy. You haven't put forward a position and my response is more a debate to the broader group than to you specifically. My point is we can do a lot more to stop war crimes in Yemen (without firing a single bullet) than we can in Ukraine (which might turn into WW3). So I don't get the logic one bit. Are we about stopping war crimes? Doesn't seem so. We don't even stop the easy ones. I know we aren't going to get into a war with Russia. Fortunately we don't have an administration that would be so reckless. We can not stop Russia from doing what they are doing. I don't think people truly understand that. They won't be deterred. Not by anything short of us putting boots on the ground, and even then, they probably won't stop. They are going to destroy Ukraine and it will only get uglier and uglier. And as frustrating as it is to stand by and watch this horror, that is what is going to happen. For those that argue if we don't act now he will keep going, that's bullshit. He's not going to attack NATO forces unless he is ready to end the world. Once you attack NATO forces, all hell breaks loose. He knows that. The second that happens, the NATO response will be strong and in Ukraine. Then you will see NATO air power come into play. Putin isn't stupid, he knows what he is doing, and he knows the limits. There are lines he will not cross, and there are lines we will not cross. That's the way it is. Secondly, even if you don't believe that - why act now? What advantage is there to act now vs when he attacks NATO? Will he be stronger then? No, he'll actually be weaker. Will we be weaker? No, we'll actually be stronger and more prepared. So why act now?
We know now that it takes time to rebuild after a massive war, 5-15 years even. And we know for certain as long as there will be mankind, power driven men and (possibly women) will emerge. You cannot kill them all. And the cycle goes on. ------ You learn to live with the Lesser Evil. Are you willing to take the consequences? Yes, No, Maybe.
Not at all terrible points. You are right about him striking first when he’s weaker because Ukraine will stretch him so far and the longer this goes his financial situation will be dire. Evidence given to him now that really this is the US just gives him propaganda to rally support in Russia. I will say though I think Putin is not as smart as people give him credit for. His war here I see as desperation and grievance clouding his judgement. He has the averse affect of what he was trying to achieve and he’s doubled down on that bad decision. Intelligence and embodying the definition of a lie counter each other. Chernobyl is such a great example of what is wrong with this Soviet strongman culture. You have a couple greedy A holes at the top who take the work of a couple smart Russians, use cheap labor and shortcuts to maximize output, watch it blow up in your face because you took shortcuts, lie about it as it’s burning in your face, lie some more, get a bunch of people killed, lie to a larger group of people, get more people killed, and then try to hide the truth and find a fall guy. It’s a culture of Soviet greed and lies from Soviet leaders past and currently present. It’s not intelligence. It’s a conveyer belt of lies and greed and blood. I’ll give you one reason why dealing with Russia is in our national and global interest to deal with while the Saudis aren’t. You don’t see the Saudis (as evil and corrupt as they are) blowing up and currently bombing F-ing nuclear power plants. Intelligent people don’t shell nuclear reactor sites. I don’t know how to sit back and say let’s just see how “THIS” plays out. This production brought to you from the guys who brought you Chernobyl. Other than your calculation of Putin’s intelligence, you aren’t wrong, but if the risk assessment on Putin shows that he’s already off the reservation we are sort of F-ed anyways.
