I always get back to an old story iirc Chomsky mentioned. During the Cold War a visiting Russian was told that something he proposed would not play out well in the US media. The Russian said it is amazing: "folks in the US actually believe your media". After the recent Afghan debacle the US is not up for another war at the moment. Belief in our media is breaking down, but with respect to war of militaristic foreign policy the media can still turn around the public very quickly as the support as we see is bi-partisan to the point where even Fox and Friends have to rejoin the mainstream and mention no nuance whatsoever in for instance our non-negotiability of NATO in Ukraine as playing a part in the lead up to Putin's craziness. Another interesting point is that for instance when we did similar craziness like Dubya in Iraq we had a media blitz/propaganda for months to persuade folks on the necessity of our unprovoked attack and it appears Putin stupidly did not feel a necessity to do so in Russia.
American are willing to pay higher gas price. Ipsos poll on 3/3-4, 2022: "The United States should not buy oil or gas from Russia during this conflict, even if it causes American gas prices to increase" 80% overall agree (41% strongly agree. 39% tend to agree.)
Good post and we definitely cannot think of taking on Russia as being a limited engagement. Putin right now can decide to end it but the Russian people also could. This is a moment in history like 1991 and 1917 that the Russian people need to decide what they ant Russia to be. Do they want it to be an authoritarian state sacrificing blood and treasure for past glory while isolating themselves from the rest of the World? Or do they want to be part of the World?
It's a war crime when intentionally killing civilians or PoW. War sucks, but we didn't intent to kill civilians. Putin seems to be doing that.
The whole premise behind my point was the surface level discussions on the justifications of the war are semantics. What are the long term effects? Why is this so much more important than Crimea and Georgia? Why are we issuing sanctions that only hurt the Russian people who do not support the war while we continue to buy Putins oil, the commodity that keeps him in power? This all seems like the same BS excuses that kept us in Vietnam. Invaded a sovereign nation because they had weapons of mass destruction. Occupied a nation for twenty years trying to set up a puppet government. As I stated several times, these types of wars go on everyday in territories all over the world. And I am sure this conversation will swing back into the same whataboutism Hitlerism conversations. We should be running from this conflict, not running to it. The establishment, for some sick reason, loves war.
https://sports.yahoo.com/reckless-ignorance-senators-criticised-sharing-160418039.html ‘Reckless ignorance’: Senators criticised for sharing photos of Zelensky after being asked not to Two US senators have come under fire for sharing photos of Volodomyr Zelensky on social media after they were reportedly asked not to for the safety of the Ukrainian president. Democratic Rep Dean Phillips slammed Republican Senators Steve Daines and Marco Rubio for their “appalling and reckless ignorance” after they each posted screen grabs from a Zoom call between Mr Zelensky and a group of US senators on Saturday morning. The congressman tweeted on Saturday that all lawmakers had specifically been asked not to post anything about the virtual meeting online in order to “protect the security” of the Ukrainian president who is said to have been targeted by multiple Russian assassination plots. “The Ukrainian Ambassador very intentionally asked each of us on the zoom to NOT share anything on social media during the meeting to protect the security of President Zelenskyy,” he tweeted. “Appalling and reckless ignorance by two US Senators.” Mr Rubio, senator for Florida, had posted a screen grab on Twitter of Mr Zelensky to his 4.2m followers, writing: “On zoom call now with President Zelensky of #Ukraine”. Montana Senator Daines also posted a photo from the meeting on his Twitter, with the caption: “Currently on a zoom call with President Zelenskyy. #StandWithUkraine.”
Ok. So we both agree on the original premise. It's essential to Russias security, again, semantics aside. It's an invasion, as I originally stated. Why are we involved? We have played World Police for decades and it's always ended in failure. Ukraine is not part of NATO. I am not asking you to put down your pom poms. You have a right as an individual to fly out to Ukraine and take up arms against Russia if you feel so. But our country should not be taking sides in this conflict... at least at this time.
Semantics? Massing thousands troops along a border and invading is semantics? Ukraine is another domino in reestablishing the former Soviet Bloc which provided a buffer around Russia. Ukraine is strategically important, like Crimea which gives the Russians another warm water naval base. As far as sanctions go, do you think in 5 years Europe will be as reliant on Russian oil and gas? Nuclear powers do this often? Seems like your whataboutism is about shadowy elites, establishment, and cabals.
The stupid bast*rds. Incredible. Putin has hundreds of hired guns either in Kyiv or attempting to enter the city, and bent on killing President Zelensky. If they manage it, god forbid, what then? I hate to think of the consequences. Zelensky has become so important to Ukraine.
Don't think the same thing that is happening to Russia couldn't happen to us. We had an idiot in office too. Had he done something stupid which was totally plausible, and then say India moves to the other side of the political equation, it wouldn't take much to tip the world populous and the economic war against us. What I'm saying is if that ever happened, you and we be broke in a week too. You are watching a new kind of war. Military might, technology, and deterrence are all coming across as pawns against what the interconnected populous demands. Russia is getting cancelled right now over something relatively stupid and little. Their might is irrelevant. And anyone could be next. It's don't look up. The leaders and the people of the world are leading this war, and we are on the right side of it, but one day, we could easily be on the wrong side of it. It happens so fast you don't have time to spin it back. Russia is learning this the hard way. And I think, learning it first.
Drop their sorry reckless *sses by parachute over the conflict area and see how they like being put in danger.
I don't think you even remotely understand the strategic importance of Ukraine for Nato and also Europe's supply of goods and resources if you question why this is more important than Georgia or Crimea.
