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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    St Petersburg doesn't count. Moscow and St Petersburg have always had a dimmer view of the Putin governments. Whenever we see spontaneous protests, its always in these two cities. For real change to happen, you need protests in places like Novosibirsk, Chelyabinsk, Samara, etc.. Basically you need citizens outside of European Russia to start complaining. Putin's iron grip rests on the strong loyalty he developed in those regions. If Russia were only Moscow and St Petersburg, Putin wouldn't even be in power right now.
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    For 1-2 years and then...they quit and decided to publish their thoughts in the atlantic monthly and....pray?

    These guys warned all their friends how dangerous Trump was so it could show up Bob Woodward's books - like maybe you should go before Congress instead of Bob Woodard?


    I said this back then, I'll say it now. If you believed Trump was a danger, and if you're one of the few people on earth to be able to actually invoke the 25th amendment, - do it instead of telling CNN it's a good move after you've already quit.

    I'm not saying its an easy thing to do but the collective inaction when it came to combatting Trump from the people who knew he was doing wrong, how dangerous he was, and were placed to stop it is still disturbing. It's like John Bolton and the Ukraine scandal. Sure, he did the kind of right thing, but he still tried to play both sides and sell books as well.
     
  3. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    The EU has a collective defense clause as well. If Finland and/or Sweden is invaded, you're still dealing with EU military intervention and France's nuclear arsenal.
     
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  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    The most likely outcome is that we do not make things better but worse. War in Ukraine will continue and even more will die, and death will now possible spread to other places. People feel that the answer to war is more war.

    War isn't going to magically solve the situation - Ukrainians are going to die and suffer regardless. Why not give the other avenues more time to have impact?

    The other thing that really annoys me is where was this anger and response from people when Georgia was invaded? How is this any different?
     
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  5. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    There are actual white supremacists groups in America that are actually holding rallies attended by GOP politicians. That's even more worrisome. There are white supremacists groups holding Nazi flags and wearing Trump hats at his rallies. They should all be labeled as terrorist groups.
     
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  6. Major

    Major Member

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    Are we really sure about this? Europe is the one that has been leading the charge here. The EU pushed more aggressive sanctions than we did - including to things damaging to their own economies. Germany is increasing its defense budget. Multiple European countries are sending weapons. Several were willing to literally give jets to Ukrainian pilots before that fell apart for some reason. The US has been behind the curve on all of this - likely because Europeans are more intimately familiar with the history both of Russian aggression and of the consequences of appeasement.

    I don't think the alliance would support sending in ground troops or things like that. But if NATO offered a humanitarian no-fly zone or offered Iron Dome missile defenses (the two things Ukraine is asking for), I'm not sure it's the Europeans that would balk.
     
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  7. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    The US leading the charge would be beneficial to Russia/China's propaganda machines.
     
  8. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    I want him as my Uber driver

     
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  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Beside that it's really Europe that is affected here. The sanctions hurt them the most, any ban hurts them the most, and any kind of war hurts them far more. They have the right be in the drivers seat.
     
    #3449 Sweet Lou 4 2, Mar 2, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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  10. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    What I am surprised is Israel not making a statement in Russia stated the obvious lie of using the denazification of Ukraine. They should be telling people in Russia that it is not true. I know there is Russia ties with Israel. Still Russian people should know
     
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  11. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    The risk of a general war is too great, and I think most of the members of NATO would feel the same way. This isn't Syria or Iraq. This is a nuclear power on the borders of NATO led by what appears to be an increasingly unstable autocrat who dreams of returning Russia to the status it once held as the Soviet Union - that of an empire. Inevitably, we would be shooting down each others military aircraft. It wouldn't end there.

    As for the Iron Dome, Israel wouldn't allow it to be used, unless there is a drastic change in Israeli policy. Look it up. They have a tenuous agreement with Russia not to interfere with Israel's attacks in Syria on Iran and it's surrogates.
     
  12. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    **** got real now. Those poor Russian gamers.

     
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  13. basso

    basso Member
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  14. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Lukashenko is good at keeping a straight face.
     
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  16. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    I'm wondering what will come of the talks that started today between China and Ukraine -- I'm really surprised that it isn't a larger headline.
     
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  17. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    I watched the real life lore video .my guess is that Russia/he want that canal open so they can get water to Crimea .

    Russian troops running out of food and fuel isn’t a huge hinderance if the troops are already near their planned locations .

    They still are ramped up with Belarus to do a bigger attack (which I think is a bluff ... for now anyways ) .

    they can sell their energy to China .

    I think Putin is still rational . Just like Nolan Ryan , the element of being a little wild can play mind games

    How does this come to a peaceful end ?

    What does Russia give up ? What will Ukraine do given that they are paying in blood ? will they concede something ?

    the nukes are something which I think Russia and Putin are actually willing to give up . This spike tension leads to a nuclear arms deal being part of the peace deal ... seen as a win for the west . But Russia gets water to Crimea and abundant energy . They can always build more nukes in 5 years .

    Their economy being propped up by China and whoever will buy from them during “peace”
     
  18. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    This won’t turn out well for him. If it is true




    I hope this is not true. Last thing the Ukrainians should do

     
  19. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    The problem becomes what to do with captured Russian troops. I’m sorry but with Ukraine civilians being targeted and food and basic needs being cut off, it’s an ugly war…execute the Russians captured.
     
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  20. SuraGotMadHops

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    Biden called Ukranians "Iranians"
     

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