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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    Ukraine seems to disagree - they are begging NATO to establish a no fly zone. It's their top public request.

    Ukraine might not exist in a functional form by the time most of that aid gets there. The need is immediate - as in, the next 24-72 hours.

    It sounds crazy, but I believe what happens this week is likely going to be remembered as a defining point in history - similar to 9/11, the Berlin Wall falling, etc. It will define the future relationship between democratic countries and not-so-democratic countries. This is basically the one and only time in modern history that virtually the entire world is lined up and unified both economically and morally against a superpower. I'd rather us do more than less and push that advantage rather than letting Russia regroup.
     
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  2. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Let's hope that's sooner than later...
     
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  3. Two Sandwiches

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    I can almost guarantee you that somewhere in Russia. Somebody right now is thinking of a plot to kill him. I'm not saying I know that, I'm just saying based on history the probabilities are likely.
     
  4. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    I wish. Exxon announced on Feb 1 they would start to ramp up drilling. These companies haven't been drilling which lead to increased prices. They saw demand outstripping supply and refused to do anything.
     
  5. Two Sandwiches

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    I cannot agree more with this post.
     
  6. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    Even a blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion.
     
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  7. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    A Republican in Democrat clothing
     
  8. HTM

    HTM Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Two Sandwiches

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    If you combine the history of the assassinations of Russian Czars and European dictators, history says you can get to him with a bomb.
     
    #3209 Two Sandwiches, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
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  10. Two Sandwiches

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    One before video is actually online as well. One of those killed was documenting the whole thing.
     
  11. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    Except establishing a no fly zone may actually end human history and there wouldn't be many people left to remember it as "defining."

    Here you go: Citing growing attacks on civilians, European forces decide to establish a no fly zone over Ukraine. The no fly zone is supposed to only cover Western Ukraine so civilians can evacuate the fighting. The Kremlin raises their nuclear posture for real now.

    A French Rafale flying over Western Ukraine in support of allowing free passage of civilians to flee is engaged by a Russian Sukhoi Su-57 and its missiles barely miss. The Rafale, ordered not to engaged unless engaged targets the Russian fighter and scores a hit.
    The Kremlin declarers war against France, launching cruise missiles at French fighters stationed at Cauzaux. Several are shot down, but a single missile hits a maintenance building, killing 4 French airmen.
    France declares war on Russia and cites article 5 of NATO. NATO forces begin bombarding Russian military assets at sea and in Ukraine, expanding the war.

    Russia, fires 4 hypersonic, nuclear tipped missiles at strategic points in Europe from Belarus. NATO members, sensing the launch of nuclear weapons, retaliate with multiple launches of their own. Several Russian installations are hit on Russian soil, triggering "dead man" launches of tactical nuclear warheads.

    Since the Russian thermonuclear doctrine is to launch everything, targets in every major Western power are selected and fired upon. The US, who so far has not engaged with anyone, has 1,500 nuclear warheads headed at the mainland and at bases around the world. Larger ICBMs begin to be shot down by US missile defense systems around the world destroying 80% of the missiles in flight. Approx. 300 nuclear missiles desend on US targets.

    US bases in Europe, Asia, and North Africa are vaporized. Hawaii is left a smoldering pile of volcanic rock. Missiles headed for Guam explode offshore, causing the citizens and military to die in days, rather than instantly. Some 150 warhead impact the US mainland. The port of Houston and Galveston are destroyed. People in The Woodlands and North try to escape North to get away from the fallout. Downtown Houston is smoldering ash. Every mile further North less people died instantly and more people will die in days and weeks.

    San Antonio, home to large bases is hit by multiple warheads. The US hasn't been doing nothing, however. As soon as missiles were launched, thousands of warheads were launched via ICBMs, subs, an US strategic bombers clean up afterwards. Russia ceases to exist.

    The bombers return to the US to land at small regional airports as every major military base and airport in the US is now a No Go zone. Your money is worthless. Guns, gold and silver are the most valuable assets to trade for food. Less than 15% of the US mainland is habitable due to fallout. Your children, if they survived, will die of cancer in their 40s.

    China, avoiding major destruction, becomes the de facto super power in a dying world. Their people begin to starve, due to food shortages. India with their own food shortages and desperate, launch an invasion. Knowing further nuclear warheads would only destroy what is remaining, the two largest countries in the history of the world fight a three decade conventional war killing hundreds of millions more.
     
    #3211 Supermac34, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
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  12. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  13. NewRoxFan

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  14. basso

    basso Member
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    would hit
     
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  15. basso

    basso Member
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  16. Major

    Major Member

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    Did you just write a long work of fiction and use that as an argument for something? I mean I could similarly say:

    Putin is growing mentally unstable. He wins Ukraine next week and, being the meglomaniac he is, decides it's proof that he's invincible and launches 100 nukes all over the globe. The end.
     
  17. Invisible Fan

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    When reading about the 94 Buddapest Memorandum, the Ukrainians got a raw deal and were likely pressured by both powers to sign for aid. It made me think the NPT is a suckers bet unless you have these assurances:
    1. American nuclear umbrella - the same agreement Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea and NATO has. The former two gave up their nuke programs for it.
    2. International integration - I guess this applies to Brazil, Argentina and S. Africa. The former two did not want to end up like India and Pakistan and weren't motivated by religious brinksmanship to go all the way. S. Africa did it to earn credits during the end stages of Apartheid
    3. Absolute military guarantees that withstand political changes among powers over time (Yeltsin lol)
    The point here is that no state is going to openly give up their nukes anymore and will try to get in the club on the sly like Israel, N. Korea, Pakistan, and India.

    There really is no benefit, unless you're heavily in debt, committed some crime against humanity that the world can't yet forgive, or under threat of overthrow. Especially when the amount of investment would dwarf some military budgets.

    Overall, we should all be glad Ukraine did give up their large stockpile of nukes. I doubt how responsible their dictators would've been over the last ~20 years and it's a success all those fears of suitcase nukes or broken arrows were contained to Hollywood blockbusters.

    It just highlights another mounting challenge in Pax America.
     
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  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    when the criticism is over the top, biased, and continuously erroneous and one-side - then yeah with that pattern it does make someone anti-x
     
  19. Invisible Fan

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    So the pot is blacker than the tea kettle? Hmm
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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    define biased criticism, please.
     

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