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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Wow, reading that thread it seems to be a cluster**** and the Russian military is not very modern or good.

    That compounds the fact that it seems most of these troops were lied too.
     
    FranchiseBlade and Andre0087 like this.
  2. basso

    basso Member
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    please post the number of times you've seen me generalize in this fashion.

    include links, please.

    TYIA.
     
  3. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    We all know this to be the case, but we need to be vigilant about our biases because they lead to policy. We treat war in the middle east different than war in Europe. Black people get arrested more and are sentenced longer for the same offenses, etc.
    If you are this worked up about blonde haired blue eyed people getting bombed, maybe give a second or third thought about the drone strike in an Afghan village. We are pretty quick to except the pretext that Afghans are terrorists and pretty quick to reject the pretext that Ukrainians are Nazis.
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    There is no good solution, only bad ones. The best of the bad solution is the course we are taking - political and economic warfare. Russia has already lost (as long as the world remains united in political and economic warfare).

    1a- I think there would be a new emphasis that we wouldn't allow anyone (Iran) to obtain a nuke that doesn't already have one.
    1b- Seeing the political isolation and economic collapse of Russia, China is likely deterred.
    1c- NK isn't suicidal. The US would engage them - they are already there in their backyard.
    1d- Even if the US wants to directly confront Russia, they can't. NATO has to unanimously approve and it won't. Without NATO, the US would need Congress to declare war - won't happen.

    2- No legally binding agreement for military protection. If Russia attacks a NATO country, that's a different story.
    3- 1a
    4- It already has. That's why Europe is arming again. And why the world is pissed off at Putin.

    5- If somehow, someway, NATO does engage, not only is it WW3, the narrative changes. Russian doesn't understand or support the aggression toward Ukraine, but they will understand war with NATO. Any chances of Putin being pushed aside internally would be lost.
     
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  5. basso

    basso Member
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  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Regardless of the polphil reason that it's worth risking nuclear war for Ukraine 22, whereas it actually wasn't for Vietnam 68, Czech 69, Afghanistan 2001 or 1982, Iraq 2003, etc, the "You have to make your stand and start down the path to nuclear war now while they're desperate " is advice that has been bandied about quite a bit.

    Thank god nobody ever listened.
     
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  7. TheresTheDagger

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    Ukraine during the Cold War was part of the USSR. This isn't just a "conquering of a democratic country". Putin considers Ukraine to be Russia.

    This is indeed one question and a valid one. Another valid question is "If we do decide to "make our stand now" are you willing to risk escalation with a potentially unhinged leader who has continually stated his threat to use nuclear weapons and has 4,500 warheads at his disposal?

    Possibly. On the other hand, even if Putin manages to take Ukraine, there will be an insurgency that will make the 1980's russian occupation of Afghanistan look like a picnic. Holding off for now buys the west time to figure out what to do next and to forment and foster internal Russian resistance. Make this hurt Russia as a country so badly economically that his own people turn on him.
     
    Lar and ROXRAN like this.
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    The entire population group is the Truckers Convoy not all Truckers I agree with the sentiment, but this post is pretty specific.
     
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  9. LosPollosHermanos

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    Yes, and the whole “we spent so much money in Afghanistan” which is code word for we invaded after 9/11 and siphoned 90+% back to private contractors. A bunch of afghani orphans arrived in Dallas thsi past week, it seems if you’re a POC nobody gives a ****
     
  10. what

    what Member

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    For the USA setting on the sideline, I feel is the wrong move.
    I said what I said.
    Yes, I understand world war 3, but how bad will WW3 would be if putin get Ukraine.

    I said what I said.

    I don't give a flying **** that we'd be declaring war with Russia.

    Honestly.
     
  11. what

    what Member

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    Biden's words on this sounds weak as hell. His tough talk ain't scaring anyone.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Well, I think the rest of the country and majority do not agree with you for now, if the war goes on for months and people are starving and there are civilian tragedies that might change.......but for now, we are giving sanctions and arming the Ukraine a chance.

    DD
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You're supposed to be Pro Russian if you're against Biden you dummy
     
  15. HTM

    HTM Member

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    NATO should absolutely not escalate the war/risk nuclear holocaust by getting directly involved.

    The Russians are proving that they are totally incapable of real/effectual military operations. Their troops were hungry/drunk/cold before the invasion, morale seems poor, discipline seems poor, logistical considerations seem a disaster (fuel/muniitions/all manner of supplies).

    The idea that the Russians are going to expand this war is farcical. They can't even go 100km into Ukraine without collapsing.

    Largely cut off from international resources, limited industrial capacity for war production, the war being unpopular at home/lukewarm popularity at best, the Russian economy collapsing...and the war already costing XXX millions per hour...

    Even if Kharkiv/Kiev fall.. that doesn't mean Russia wins the war.... hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are receiving combat experience or military training... soon thousands (if not 10s of thousands) of combat experienced westerners will be in country helping build up/train and fight with Ukrainians.

    I think things are going pretty well all things considered.
     
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  16. TheresTheDagger

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    :rolleyes:

    I believe it's still possible to fly to Poland. Head on over and get in the fight. Better yet, send your kids to do it tough guy.
     
  17. basso

    basso Member
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    Criticizing Biden, or his actions, does not mean one is anti-Biden.
     
  18. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I think 200k troops, ill-equipped or not, is still a force to be reckoned with. Add is Russian air support and missiles and it’s a bloodbath.
     
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  19. cdastros

    cdastros Member

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    Trump should learn how to use google maps.

     
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  20. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    JFC, 40% of Americans revere this jackass.

    [​IMG]
     

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