1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,296
    Curious why you think Putin is smart. He already completely lost the media war and the the economic war. He may lose the physical war too.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
  3. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,296
  4. Two Sandwiches

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    23,134
    Likes Received:
    15,071
    So, uhhh, what happens with the mine? Do you have to drive over it to detonate it, or how does that work?


    Also, did the Russians set it? Seems it'd have been more advantageous if the Ukrainians set it.


    I need the mine's life story.
     
    #2244 Two Sandwiches, Feb 27, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
    Andre0087 and Ubiquitin like this.
  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,296
    Putin puts Russia's nuclear forces on alert, cites sanctions - The Washington Post

    KYIV, Ukraine — In a dramatic escalation of East-West tensions over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin ordered Russian nuclear forces put on high alert Sunday in response to what he called “aggressive statements” by leading NATO powers.

    The order means Putin has ordered Russia’s nuclear weapons prepared for increased readiness to launch, raising the threat that the tensions could boil over into nuclear warfare. In giving it, the Russian leader also cited hard-hitting financial sanctions imposed by the West against Russia, including Putin himself.

    Speaking at a meeting with his top officials, Putin directed the Russian defense minister and the chief of the military’s General Staff to put the nuclear deterrent forces in a “special regime of combat duty.”

    “Western countries aren’t only taking unfriendly actions against our country in the economic sphere, but top officials from leading NATO members made aggressive statements regarding our country,” Putin said in televised comments.

    The Russian leader this week threatened to retaliate harshly against any nations that intervened directly in the conflict in Ukraine, and he specifically raised the specter of his country’s status as a nuclear power.

    The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations responded to the news from Moscow while appearing on a Sunday news program.

    “President Putin is continuing to escalate this war in a manner that is totally unacceptable,” Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield said. “And we have to continue to condemn his actions in the most strong, strongest possible way.”
     
  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    24,778
    Likes Received:
    31,891
    The false God they prey to. I don't believe killing innocent people is part of any God's wish.
     
  7. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,755
    Likes Received:
    17,675
    the patch looks amazing.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  8. riko

    riko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    9,634
    Likes Received:
    16,083
    Now the crazy Ruskis are threatening Sweden and Finland with military consequences if they join NATO. Putin has lost it.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    33,546
    Likes Received:
    17,508
  10. CrazyJoeDavola

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    3,082
     
    Nook likes this.
  11. Two Sandwiches

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    23,134
    Likes Received:
    15,071
    I believe the term the kids use is "f**k around and find out."
     
    Nook likes this.
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,675
    Likes Received:
    22,390
    Seems ill advised to me. Zelensky cannot be anywhere near this meeting.

    Also seems like Russians would just use a cease fire to refuel and reinforce their fighters. If they can burn out Russia’s resources to a point that it incapacitates them for months not days, I would think it to be the best case for Ukraine to hunker down and let Russia over extend itself for 10 days. It’ll cost billions in damage to the countries infrastructure but might win the war.

    But what do I know. Hard to tell exactly how this is shaking out because the media seems mostly in bunkers or in areas out West for safety reasons.
     
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,296
    With nuke readiness escalation from Putin, a good time to read this. Tom Nichols predicted this, if things went badly for Russia, that he might escalate with the threat of nuke.

    How Ukraine Could Become a Nuclear Crisis - The Atlantic

    Chaos creates countless opportunities for mistakes.

    The Russian invasion of Ukraine is not a nuclear crisis. Yet. Concern about the role of nuclear weapons is perfectly understandable, however, now that a paranoid dictator has led Russia into a major war in the middle of Europe, attacking a country that shares a border with four of America’s NATO allies. A nuclear crisis is unlikely, but not impossible.

    The Russians are going to defeat the overmatched Ukrainians, and they do not need nuclear weapons to do it. And while Vladimir Putin is, in my view, unhinged and reckless, I see no indication that he is seeking war with the United States or NATO. Nonetheless, there are multiple paths to a dangerous nuclear confrontation that could embroil Moscow and Washington in a situation neither of them expects or wants.

    The least likely occasion for a nuclear crisis would be if Russian forces directly and intentionally threaten NATO territory. All of the Atlantic alliance, including the United States and its nuclear arsenal, would be required to come to the aid of the nations in danger. This is the doomsday scenario that NATO was created to prevent, and it would come about only if Putin were seized by an even greater madness than the one driving him to war in Ukraine. If Putin were to decide, for example, that his great crusade to roll back the collapse of the Soviet Union should include recapturing the Baltic states or driving NATO forces from Poland, he would effectively be declaring World War III and throwing the entire world into the abyss. But, again, there is no evidence that Putin intends to take this path.

    A far more likely possibility would be a crisis arising from an accident. War is always a risky and unpredictable affair, even when one side is far stronger than the other. Human beings and their machines make mistakes, sometimes with dire results. In 2015, Turkey, a NATO nation, shot down a Russian jet that had strayed over the Turkish border. Two years ago, during the crisis between Iran and the United States after U.S. forces killed Qassem Soleimani, the Iranians shot down a commercial airliner—from Ukraine, no less—in their own country. And let us not forget that the Russian forces now on the march belong to the same military that in 2014 managed to screw up and shoot down a commercial airliner over Ukraine while claiming that it wasn’t even there in the first place.

    There are countless opportunities for such errors in the chaos now overtaking Ukraine. The Russians might shoot at NATO aircraft after misidentifying them. Or they might incorrectly believe that Russian aircraft have been attacked by NATO forces. They might suffer a misfire or a targeting error of some kind that puts Russian ordnance on NATO territory. Europe’s a crowded continent, and no place for a jumpy trigger finger, but accidents are an unavoidable part of warfare.

    Any one of these mishaps could lead the Russians, or the United States, or both, to increase the alert status of their nuclear arsenals. This would mean that nuclear weapons and their crews—in some cases, with missiles that are already capable of being launched in 15 or 20 minutes—would heighten their vigilance and readiness to proceed with their missions. Such alerts are rare, and for good reason: They move us one step closer to nuclear conflict.

    Finally, there is the frightening possibility that Putin will increase the alert status of his nuclear forces for his own reasons, leaving the Americans no choice but to raise their alert status. The invasion of Ukraine was preceded by the Russian Grom (meaning “thunder”) drills, a regular exercise held by Russia’s strategic nuclear forces. The timing was no accident; Putin relies on Russia’s nuclear deterrent as one of its last claims to superpower status, and he could activate another such exercise, or call for a heightened alert condition, if he thinks things are going poorly for Russia.

    Perhaps Russian forces, for example, end up taking more casualties than Putin expected, and he wants to blame the West rather than admit the incompetence or errors of his own commanders. He might then use nuclear signaling as a way of creating a narrative for his people that the West is somehow threatening Russia and that he is determined to stand up to Washington. Or he may be paranoid enough to believe that the U.S. and NATO are planning to send forces in to aid the Ukrainians. Or he may simply decide on such an alert merely to bare his teeth if he thinks it might stop the supply of arms and aid to Ukraine.

    Such tit-for-tat signaling has happened before. In 1973, when the Soviet Union threatened to send troops into the middle of the Yom Kippur War to save Egyptian forces from destruction by the Israelis, the United States raised its level of nuclear preparedness, its DEFCON, or “defense condition,” as a way of indicating American resolve to prevent a Soviet intervention. The Soviets and the Americans for decades poisoned the air and oceans with nuclear tests that were meant to show strength and determination.

    In an escalating-alert-level scenario, each side will start watching the other intensely for evidence of an impending attack. All of the gremlins of error and miscalculation that are already on the loose in Ukraine now will become existential hazards until the crisis—which at that point will be about the United States and Russia, instead of Ukraine—is somehow sorted out.

    None of this—we must hope—is likely. And it is needlessly anxiety-producing, even unhealthy, to spend too much time pondering the chances of a nuclear confrontation. But it is imprudent to pretend that the weapons do not exist at all. Nuclear weapons helped keep the peace in the first Cold War. Sadly, we must hope they will do so again in this new, second cold war declared by the Russian president.
     
    mikol13 and basso like this.
  14. Two Sandwiches

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    23,134
    Likes Received:
    15,071
    They seem so Barney Fife that I'm sure this was actually just an honest mistake.


    Either way, see my previous post.
     
  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,975
    Likes Received:
    36,809
    Remember when we feared the mental state of Kim Jong Un? Quaint times.
     
  16. Two Sandwiches

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    23,134
    Likes Received:
    15,071
    Exactly. Seems like a way to lure Zelensky to a place where he can be killed.


    Last I heard, he refused to hold talks in Belarus.



    Bring them both here. I bet Putin wouldn't do it.
     
  17. riko

    riko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    9,634
    Likes Received:
    16,083
    Russian army is struggling
     
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,746
  19. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,296
    Yea. I said from the start, everyone should be uneased. This isn't just a fight from some far-away place. Outside of nuke, one push of a button is enough to start cyber warfare. And what the west is doing, rightfully so, is economic warfare - the Russian economy will collapse quickly.
     
  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,746
    These dudes are bad f'ing news.
     
    ElPigto likes this.

Share This Page