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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It is not at all clear that Putin's objective is for Russia to "have" Ukraine. However, if we do not want to to leave that option up to him, we are going to have to be willing to load up and fight a full front war in Ukraine with Russia over this territory. The clear fact is that we are not willing or ready to do that, while the Russians are.

    What the western leaders are doing now is a series of ineffectual virtue signaling moves that allow them to pose as if the are "doing something". They would be smart to stick with the economic sanctions against Putin and other top leaders, and then push for Putin to reach a negotiated settlement, not only with Ukraine, but with the EU, the US and NATO, who are all critical actors in this conflict.

    It would not be hard to propose a rough outline of an agreement that would result in Russia willingly withdrawing from Ukraine, based on the key understanding that Ukraine will be a neutral country and a geopolitical buffer between the EU and Russia. This agreement would need to include
    1. A pledge from western countries and the Ukraine that Ukraine is not and will not be part of NATO or the EU,
    2. A pledge lhat Ukraine will respect Russia's ability to pipe its gas across the pipelines that run through Ukraine
    3. A pledge from NATO to not militarize try to establish itself militarily on Ukrainian territory
    With this, and probably a few other less important terms, the Russians will very likely be willing to withdraw from Ukraine. Unless and until the west starts pranking around in that region again.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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  3. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    these two countries are experts at disinformation

    cant believe any of the footage we are seeing
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

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  5. Two Sandwiches

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    It almost seems as if Putin sent a bunch of sacrificial lambs to slaughter, in the young soldiers that are mandated to serve, and that he sent them with of equipment.


    I get the feeling that the real part of their military is coming out tonight, now that The Ukraine is getting tired from its defense. Hopefully the good guys keep supplying them with more ammunitions and manpower. They need it.
     
    Blatz likes this.
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    Good god, what a steaming pile of nonsense. Your mind really has been turned to mush by the cult. I thought you maga nut jobs were the come and take it party. Turns out you are just a bunch of whiny b**** snowflakes.

    The entire western world is united behind Ukraine and its cost what, a few hundred million in aid? Some shared intelligence.

    Putin is flailing, his economy is in ruins, his antiquated military hardware is being chewed up and destroyed, His people are protesting in the streets, and his troops are defecting.

    Even in Ukraine falls tomorrow, this has already been an absolute disaster for Russia.

    Why don't you just go to a local walmart and Karen up the place. This is clearly beyond you.
     
    AleksandarN, leroy, Junebball and 4 others like this.
  7. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    you seem to not really believe what you just posted. Antiquated military hardware being chewed up and destroyed run by defecting troops take a country almost the size of Texas in 4 days.
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    so many r****ds here will blindly eat up whatever garbage info is being spread around

    nobody knows what is actually happening there
     
  9. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  10. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    Reported as a Russian-hacked account.
     
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  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    No, they haven't advanced very far at all in the country, they are TRYING to take the capital which is 75 miles from the border....



    DD
     
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  12. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    I've seen this movie before.

    Good luck occupying a state the size of Texas which is heavily armed and supported and whose people are showing remarkable resilience.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  14. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    The yearly conscripts size is 260k. Who knows how many of them are in this war, against their will.

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/personnel-draft.htm

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...diers-to-ukraine-rights-group-says/ar-AAUgrBI

    Russian soldiers from all across the country were deceived into heading to the Ukrainian border, and some were beaten if they resisted, according to the Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers, a Russian non-governmental organization that works to expose human rights violations within the military.

    The group is reportedly preparing a complaint for the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office alleging that their sons only recently joined the military as conscripts and were told they were going to the border with Ukraine for drills. But their statuses were then abruptly changed to contract soldiers— a role for those with more combat and training experience—and they were suddenly thrust into war.

    “They are switching entire regiments to contract [soldiers,] although the guys did not submit any formal requests for this, and took no such initiative. There are instances of physical violence, and beatings of those who refuse to become contract soldiers. And after that it’s completely unknown [what happens to them], because they take away their phones,” Andrei Kurochkin, the deputy chairman of the group, told Takie Dela.

    “We've had a flurry of calls from scared mothers all over Russia. They are crying, they don’t know if their children are alive or healthy,” he was quoted saying, adding that it’s a “complete catastrophe” when military service is performed “under duress.”

    “If there is a war, then professionals should deal with it, and not untrained ‘green’ guys,” Kurochkin said.

    After hours of battles in multiple cities on Thursday, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry said Russian troops had suffered losses, though they stopped short of providing specific figures. As of Thursday evening, the Russian soldiers were taking “an operational pause and regrouping,” the ministry said.

    Ukrainian authorities said two Russian soldiers were also captured.

    The claims that some Russian soldiers were literally forced into the war with Ukraine come after Britain’s Defense Ministry released footage it said showed Russia was using mobile crematoriums to conceal its own soldiers’ deaths from the world.

    Defense Minister Ben Wallace told The Telegraph the vehicle-mounted crematoriums “evaporate” each body placed inside them.

    He described the crematoriums as a “very chilling side effect of how the Russians view their forces.”

    “If I was a soldier and knew that my generals had so little faith in me that they followed me around the battlefield with a mobile crematorium, or I was the mother or father of a son, potentially deployed into a combat zone, and my government thought that the way to cover up loss was mobile crematorium, I'd be deeply, deeply worried,” Wallace was quoted saying.

    Amid a worldwide outcry over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the Kremlin has been quick to stifle dissent at home. Numerous protests were staged in cities across the country on Thursday, but they were quickly dispersed by riot police who bundled protesters into police vans. OVD-Info, a media resource that tracks arrests during mass protests, reported a total of 650 arrests in multiple cities.

     
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  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    This man has balls....

    DD
     
  17. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    Don't these Russian soldiers care that they are basically fighting their own people? How can you do that? They should be defying Putin's orders in mass. And, how the f*ck does Putin get away with calling anyone Nazis? He's mad as hell. Something happened to him either because of pandemic isolation or delusions of grandeur from having the fastest nukes in the world. He's gone mad. Brainwashing his people like that with anything he can think of? Genocide is an absolute joke of a claim. The only one acting like a Nazi is Putin.
     
  18. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    Ukraine needs to blow those BM-21 GRAD launchers up.

    Otherwise you get this....

     
  19. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Democrats in this country frequently call their political opponents Nazis without evidence.
    Justin Trudeau called the trucker convoy Nazis without evidence.
    Vladimir Putin called Ukrainians Nazis without evidence.

    Do you notice a pattern?
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Why would you need pediatric surgeons?

    Leaked document shows Russia is preparing for 'a massive medical emergency' of Ukraine war casualties (yahoo.com)

    Leaked documents show that Russia is preparing for many casualties caused by Putin's invasion of Ukraine and is preparing to draft civilian medics from across the country, said ITV News.

    The documents, sent exclusively to ITV news and signed by Deputy Health Minister Plutnitsky, ask medical teams "to be promptly involved in activities aimed at saving lives & preserving the health of people in Russia."

    Emma Burrows, ITV's news editor, wrote that it "indicates Russia is anticipating a massive medical emergency" and could be forced to deploy doctors and medics from health organizations across the country.

    It requests that medical institutions send a list of medical specialists and their details to the Russian health ministry to deploy them when needed. Medics that it is looking for include trauma, heart, maxillofacial and pediatric surgeons, anesthetists, radiologists, nurses (including for operating rooms), and infectious disease specialists.
     
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