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The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/opinion/democrats-biden-voters.html?smid=url-share

    Can Dems Dodge Doomsday?
    Feb. 19, 2022
    By Maureen Dowd
    Opinion Columnist

    It may be a TikTok world, but sometimes old hacks know best.

    James Carville helped Bill Clinton get elected against stiff odds. David Axelrod helped Barack Obama get elected against stiff odds. And Stan Greenberg was the first to identify the fateful trend of Reagan Democrats.

    All three Dems are speaking out with startling candor about the impending Repubocalypse. Many Americans are fed up. The jumbled Covid response has eroded an already shaky trust in government. Inflation is biting. War is looming. Things feel out of control. People are anxious and reassessing their lives. Democrats have to connect with that.

    The Democrats are stepping all over themselves. And Republicans are doing all they can to prevent the Democrats from accomplishing anything, and then are trashing them for not doing anything. Voters like to punish the people in power. So if the Democrats don’t figure it out, Jim Jordan is going to be running the House and pushing investigations of Biden and Hillary. They can’t quit her.

    Exhausted, confused, isolated and depressed Americans are not buying the Democratic line that things are better than they look.

    Biden’s superpower was supposed to be empathy, but nobody’s feeling it.

    “He is depriving himself of his strongest assets: empathy and an identification with the day-to-day lives of people,” Axelrod said. “One of Biden’s strengths is that, at his best, he speaks the language of America, not Washington. But he has been speaking more in the voice of government officials than he has of Scranton Joe. He needs to get back there.

    “Gary Hart told me the smartest thing I ever heard in politics: ‘Washington is always the last to get the news.’”

    Axelrod understands, from his days in the White House, that the Biden team is frustrated because they feel the public doesn’t appreciate their achievements, and they don’t understand why. Biden’s advisers are urging him just to sell harder and people will get it. Axelrod disagrees: “You cannot persuade people if their lived experience is telling them something different. We’ve been through hell in America and around the world.”

    In a Times opinion piece, Axelrod said Biden should avoid “off-key” triumphalism in his State of the Union address, and remember the country is traumatized.

    Carville, still a Ragin’ Cajun, took time out from his Mardi Gras planning to reiterate points he has made in a Vox interview and elsewhere: Democrats should not be defined by their left wing or condone nutty slogans like “Defund the police.” They should work not to seem like an “urban, coastal, arrogant party” indulging in “faculty lounge politics” that appeal to reason rather than emotion and use “woke” words like “Latinx.”

    “Seventy percent of the people in San Francisco tried to warn us,” he said of the battle among Democrats that ended up with voters firing three far-left school board members who mandated a long break from in-person learning during the pandemic and who wanted to rechristen schools named after Abraham Lincoln and George Washington.

    “They’re not popular,” Carville said of such far-lefties, adding in a line spoken directly to them: “People don’t like you.”

    Right now, he said, Americans are seeing “confusion and disorder.”

    “You’ve got to give people the sense that they may not be all that happy in 2022 but if they vote for the Republicans, they’re going to lose a lot of the things they have now,” Carville said.

    He’s mystified about the Trumpified Republicans. “If there’s one thing we were kind of united about, it was that you couldn’t trust the Russians,” he said. “Now people on Fox are pulling for the Russians. Go figure.” (Tucker Carlson asked, “Why is it disloyal to side with Russia but loyal to side with Ukraine?”)

    Carville is also flummoxed that Republicans could defend the Jan. 6 madness as “legitimate political discourse.”

    “Ninety-eight percent of people on the Mall on Jan. 6 were white,” he said. “We need better white people in the United States.”

    In a blunt piece in The American Prospect, Greenberg warned Democrats not to use Obama as a closer in campaigns anymore or to present themselves as the party of Obama.

    Once, Democrats believed that Obama’s multiracial coolness would animate his party. But his failure to prosecute any bankers after the near-collapse of the economy solidified fears that Wall Street and Washington were in cahoots.

    “Obama did not give voice to the hurt and anger that working class voters were feeling,” Greenberg wrote, adding that Democratic leaders “stopped advocating for workers against corporate excess and stopped challenging the exceptional corruption that allowed billionaires and Wall Street to dominate politics. The result is that the Democratic Party has lost touch with all working people, including its own base.”

    An Associated Press story’s headline echoed his point: “‘The Brand Is So Toxic’: Dems Fear Extinction in Rural U.S.”

    Greenberg said he’s tired of trying to warn Democrats that they’re driving people away. Fretting about the threat of Trumpism, given that the Democrats are bleeding working-class voters, including Black and Hispanic ones, he told me, “If they don’t listen this time, we’re going to end up with fascism, dammit.”

    Maureen Dowd, winner of the 1999 Pulitzer Prize for distinguished commentary and author of three New York Times best sellers, became an Op-Ed columnist in 1995. @MaureenDowdFacebook

    A version of this article appears in print on Feb. 20, 2022, Section SR, Page 9 of the New York edition with the headline: Can Dems Dodge Doomsday?






     
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  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    They have backed themselves into a corner and there is no way out but up. They would have to abandon wokism, domineering collectivism, large-scale voter fraud, censorship and "political correctness," open borders, identity politics, gender politics, and aggressive intolerance towards anyone who does not bow down and submit to them in every facet of their lives.

    How can they walk away from all of that at this point? Who would they be without all of that? Who or what? They have no identity or substance apart from these sorts of priorities, all of which are focused on their obsession to dominate and control - no matter what, even if they are failing spectacularly, as is currently the case. They do not care if they are bringing mass-disaster on our nation, as long as they are in charge.

    The article above sounds the alarm, but can they respond to it in a constructive way? It is not at all clear how at this point.
     
  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  5. cdastros

    cdastros Member

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  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    Dems won’t make this known…they allow all the negative talking points to fester unopposed until they became their narrative
     
  7. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Reeko is spot on
    The Democrats are HORRIBLE with Narrative, marketing and advertisement ... .
    so incompetent it boarders on intentional

    Hell at this point I hear Biden wants a second term
    Even if he does not . . I have no Confidence that Kamala can win
    The have no groomed any other viable candidates.
    I think they run Mayor Pete in 2028 if they lose in 2024 . ..
    but he will still lose

    Rocket River
     
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  8. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    the incompetence is so bad that I’ve kinda become apathetic towards the Democratic Party

    scary that someone like Mayor Pete could be the future main guy for the Democratic Party…nobody is running to the polls for him

    Kamala is basically an inexperienced Hillary Clinton

    terrible
     
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  9. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Exactly
    If you and I can see that . . . .why can the "professionals" not see it?
    Because they do and either:
    1. Don't care
    2. Arrogantly think they can force anyone down our throats and we will take it
    3. They in on the Dog and pony show

    They have done NOTHING to showcase Kamala nor Pete
    In fact they both seem kind of hidden

    Rocket River
     
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  10. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    And all of them are better 45 will ever be.
     
  11. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    definitely all 3, but mainly #2

    Democrats basically the “at least we’re not MAGA” party these days

    will throw out any underwhelming candidate and think everyone will just accept and be excited because he or she isn’t Trump

    Dems the do nothing party, and when they do do something, they suck at messaging so many aren’t aware or it gets spun into something negative

    Republican Party may be utter trash, but at least they’re all aligned in their trash ways…meanwhile, we got some talking about defund the police and others no, Bernie Bros and ultra liberals vs establishment/status quo, etc…it’s like a bunch factions just arguing
     
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  12. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    sure, but that’s not a hard feat
     
  13. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    THE WORST Democrats are those that are will and doing AYTHING To go after the Republican Base
    Many Minorities, like myself, believe . . the Democrats would throw away our whole group for a 10% cut into that Republican base
    They will to stab those most loyal to them to *try* to get those that never liked them in the 1st place

    Rocket River
     
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  14. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    they take black support for granted, but without it they’d be losing election after election
     
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  15. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    True so true.
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    This is Bullsh$t. The only reason why Democrats elected Biden in the primaries is because of the black vote in South Carolina. The party took notice and quickly figured out African Americans are the base and rallied around Biden as Jim Clyburn implored.

    I think you are confusing the Democratic Party with MSNBC who does not care about the party and loves to hire nothing but white never Trumpers. Stop letting whatever bug is up your a$$ cloud your reason and judgement. Not sure what the hell happened recently but damn… you act like Biden is Putin and Harris County is Eastern Ukraine dude. Let’s calm down please. Fox News is bad for your health bro.
     
  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    LMAO!!!
    You cannot be serious!
    Look I have a bridge to sell you . . .
    If you think the Democrats value/prize or focus on black issues. . . .you will believe anything
    Yes.. . they want the black vote. . .
    There are 2 reason Democrats lose the black votes.
    1. Republicans suppress it.
    2. Democrats spend more time attempting to court the republican vote in a way that they are transparent that they will throw black people under the bus in a heartbeat to get that vote.

    But continue to believe what ever you like DudeBro . .. . .

    Rocket River
     
  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ion-that-could-cost-them-2024-new-study-says/

    Democrats are engaged in a ‘new politics of evasion’ that could cost them in 2024, new study says
    Trump and the GOP represent a danger to democracy, the study says. Democrats must win in 2024, but first they have to reorient on cultural issues and question whether there really is a progressive majority emerging in the country.

    By Dan Balz
    Chief correspondent
    Yesterday at 8:00 a.m. EST

    Three decades ago, Democratic policy analysts William A. Galston and Elaine Kamarck published a bracing critique of their party, warning against a “politics of evasion” that they said ignored electoral reality and hindered changes needed to reverse the results of three losing presidential races in which the party had won a combined total of just 173 electoral votes.

    Now the authors are back, with a fresh analysis of their party. This time it comes in the wake of President Biden’s victory over former president Donald Trump in 2020, but it is an even starker warning about the future than the one they issued in 1989 after Michael Dukakis’s landslide electoral college loss to George H. W. Bush.

    “A Democratic loss in the 2024 presidential election may well have catastrophic consequences for the country,” they write, arguing that the Trump-led Republican Party presents the most serious threat to American democracy in modern times. The Democrats’ first duty, they argue, should be to protect democracy by winning in 2024; everything else should be subordinated to that objective.

    But they argue that the Democrats are not positioned to achieve that objective, that, instead, the party is “in the grip of myths that block progress toward victory” and that too many Democrats are engaged in a “new politics of evasion, the refusal to confront the unyielding arithmetic of electoral success.”

    “Too many Democrats have evaded this truth and its implications for the party’s agenda and strategy,” the authors add. “They have been led astray by three persistent myths: that ‘people of color’ think and act in the same way; that economics always trumps culture; and that a progressive majority is emerging.”

    Galston and Kamarck served in the Clinton administration, and Kamarck is a long-standing member of the Democratic National Committee. Both are scholars at the Brookings Institution, and their new study is published on the website of the Progressive Policy Institute, where they are contributing authors.

    Their analysis is a centrist critique of a party that they fear has moved too far to the left and in the process increasingly has lost touch with the swing voters who still have the power to decide elections. Its publication comes a week after voters in San Francisco recalled three members of the local school board in a battle that underscored the limits of left-wing politics even in such a liberal city and an outcome that set off alarmsinside the party.

    Galston and Kamarck argue that in an age of close elections (five of the past six were decided by five points or fewer), mobilizing base voters is not enough to assure success. “Even though deepening partisanship has reduced the number of swing voters, the narrow margins of our recent national elections have made these voters more important than ever,” they write. “This reality will dominate national politics until one party breaks the deadlock of the past three decades and creates a decisive national majority.”

    The authors are especially pointed in their analysis of Democrats’ vulnerabilities on cultural issues. They argue that too many Democrats continue to believe that economic issues “are the ‘real’ issues and that cultural issues are mostly diversions invented by their adversaries for political purposes.” But for many voters, cultural and religious issues are more important than economic issues, and for those voters, those issues “reflect their deepest convictions and shape their identity.”

    Trump’s appeals on cultural issues, and his anti-immigrant and nationalist posture moved voters in states with a higher-than-average percentage of White working-class voters, especially Ohio and Iowa, to the point that they are now difficult for Democrats to win presidentially. “And it has made the upper Midwest fiercely competitive, a face-off that is likely to persist until the battle lines between the parties are redrawn,” the study says.

    Democrats, they argue, must balance appeals to their base voters with a message that also appeals to enough working-class voters to win elections. In 2020, Biden was able to do that, but Galston and Kamarck argue that success “must not blind Democrats to the fact that these voters often have found Republicans’ cultural claims more persuasive than the Democrats’ economic arguments.”

    Galston and Kamarck have joined what is a rising debate within the Democratic Party about the road ahead, and while they offer recommendations from their centrist perspective, others see economic issues as still the core of the party’s message and agenda.
    more at the link
     
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  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    For many arguing that Democrats are "throwing black people under the bus" to go after the Trump base. Can you cite specifically how Democrats are doing that?
     
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  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    What evidence do you have of any of this? Please share specifics.

    Bills the Democratic House passed in 2021:

    H.R. number Date of introduction Short title
    H.R. 4 August 17, 2021 John R. Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act of 2021
    H.R. 5 February 18, 2021 Equality Act of 2021
    H.R. 6 March 3, 2021 American Dream and Promise Act of 2021
    H.R. 7 January 28, 2021 Paycheck Fairness Act

    Unless you think Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema are "the Democratic Party" who are holding these items up, I would say there are issues that are things that the African American community cares alot about being addressed by the party.

    Meanwhile in Texas where there is a monopoly of Republicans governing:

    https://www.texastribune.org/series/texas-legislature-2021/

    Really???..... this is what you are going to vote for then instead of someone who is flawed, and probably cannot win, but at least does NOT represent this crap??

    I understand you've obviously been consuming some right wing garbage or Russian troll disinformation that has you all worked up about something. However if you think someone needs to do a better job of running for office in Texas, why don't you run for something? The Democratic party at the very least has openings for normal people to run for office at a local level, and work their way up. If you hold the same values (right to vote, womens rights, healthcare as a right, etc.) why are you just on the sidelines b****ing, and why aren't you doing something instead of just whining about the reasons why you are going to encourage people to vote for Gregg F-ing Abbott just because Beto isn't good enough for you??
     

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