If you need a project, take Green at 8 or 9. Less pressure and less guaranteed exposure by the media. Just do not take him 2nd. Why not? Let us just slowly rebuild, who needs a fast rebuild anyways.
What “competitive fire” have we ever seen from Green? From what I’ve seen there’s been a distinct lack of aggression. Is this stuff just all make believe?
Agreed. Mobley deserves a lot of credit, he is one of the 5 best defenders in the NBA right now by a lot of measures. He is doing what those that advocated for him thought he would do. It is eerie to me, because his numbers are literally exactly what I expected as a rookie. He is getting a lot of attention because his team has been a surprise, and he certainly deserves some credit for that, but I don't think he is the close to the only reason that they are playing as well as they have. Having said that, the questions I had about Mobley (who I felt was the best or second best player in this draft) persist. Is he ever going to be a good enough shooter to lead an offense? We really don't know if he will ever do that. Does Mobley have a burning desire to be great? As for Green, I didn't care what Chad Ford or other "scouting reports" said about Green, it was obvious that some of his very basic skills were rawer than most players taken in the top of a draft. In the G-League his three point shooting was very inconsistent. The sample size was small, another couple bad shooting games and he would have had a poor three point percentage in the G-League. We saw Barnes and Christopher be labeled as poor three point shooters in college because of small sample sizes. The thing about Green is that it was also obvious that he had a really nice/soft touch on his shot, and when his mechanics were good, he was a good three point shooter. That is something that can and is fixed over time almost 100% of the time when a player has the type of touch Green has. Green is very raw with his handle, and can get wild at time. However, he also has really good dexterity in his hands, and one on one has shown the ability to control the ball. That typically leads to improved handles with time. The instincts and athleticism are there, as well as the attitude and work ethic. My biggest concern with Green is his playmaking ability, but he has at least some ability in that regard. He should at least be a good starting two guard, if not an eventual star. I think it is fair to question whether Green was the right choice at #2 and the moves the team has made. I am seeing a disturbing pattern on some things. However, at the same time, it has basically been only a year and if Green progresses or the Rockets nail it in the draft, the mood could completely change.
FWIW Deuce and I spoke about Mobley and Green quite a bit before the draft, and he and I both believed that Mobley was the more NBA ready player between the two. Mobley was always in the right spot defensively and offensively he got a decent amount in transition.
Look, Green is a good player. His main negative is that he doesn’t have an alpha personality. He enjoys painting his nails, doing his hair, and talking up the show. It’s all about the flair with him. He is not the guy who demands the ball when the going gets rough….thats for others on the floor. It’s been this way in high school, g league, etc.
No I did not. But I underestimated how Mobley could kinda of hide next to Allen on the Cavs. It has given him a better runway early in the season for success. Good for him. We didn't really know it, but he landed in the perfect environment to succeed with Allen taking the tough C matchups and Garland being able to get him easy shots. As for Green, Silas needs to take off the leash. What we are seeing from Green in Houston is not the same as the G-league or even the Rockets summer league team where he was the unquestioned A1 scorer. Silas has him standing in the corner being under utilized. I also underestimated Green's lack of getting foul calls on drives and difficulty finishing through contact. But feel that will come with time.
This is a great point on Green's handle. I didn't do a good enough job thinking about how this would effect his drives to the basket. This is something that will be paramount for him to work on. I am not worried about it though with Green's work ethic. Just another aspect that will take a bit longer than I was expecting.
Yeah. Dexterity in the hands is something overlooked but very important for players that will score a lot on penetration and off the dribble. It isn't exactly the same as dribbles off passes. However, if you look at the best one on one players in NBA history, they had great hand dexterity. For a long time they said it was just hand size, but it really isn't because there have been plenty of guys with big hands that really were not good one on one players. In fairness to you, by the time the draft came around you were telling me you believed that Mobley was the more NBA ready player because of his defense. As for Green, he had terrible spacing early in the season and then was hurt.... came back strong, had a lull and now is playing better. The Rockets should be pushing his development the rest of the season and getting him shots and running more plays for him. There is zero reason not to. Green isn't impacting the outcome of games enough yet, but that is hard to do when you are taking 12 shots a game. Once he is more comfortable shooting and scoring at the NBA level, we will likely see his rebounding and assists and steals improve. I don't ever expect him to be Harden as a passer or rebounder, but he can be above average.
I have not seen the dunk contest, so I don't know how he did or what he did, but Green comes off as a try hard, meaning he tries too hard to be impressive and that can lead to doing things you are not capable of to live up to the hype. I am sorry to have been right on this one but you could just see him pressing to show everybody why he was so highly touted. I think this kind of puts to bed him being this uber athlete that is at the 1 percentile of NBA players. He is a notch below Edwards, Lavine and Morant.
Mobley definitely doesn’t hide on defense. Like at all. If you are saying he doesn’t have to guard guys for a full game who outweigh him by 60+ pounds that’s fair, but probably not the best word choice. But in terms of the Cavs twin towers pairing, finding a reasonable facsimile for the Mobley role in it is wayyy harder than doing the same for Allen, as good as Allen is.
He isn't right now, but he will be. Yeah, that is a really dated concept. The idea of an alpha is no longer viewed as valid clinically speaking but beyond that in a basketball sense when though that the greatest players of all time had different personality types. It really isn't debatable to be honest. Who cares if he paints his nails, a lot of men under 30 do. It really means nothing and is just an example of dates toxic masculinity. You don't have to like it, you can even think it is weird but it means NOTHING. If anything it shows he is confident I suppose. It is too early to tell if Green will be a player that takes and makes the last shot. You also would likely be surprised about the field goal percentage of some of your "alpha" players when they shoot at the end of games. It isn't pretty. Gotcha.
That's the thing that's most concerning to me - he's disappeared from the flow of the game a lot. Some of that I put on coaching -- I get that they don't want to overexpose him or disrupt confidence, but the amount of time he's standing still in the weakside corner is maddening. Part of that is on roster construction and coaching -- Wood, Tate, and Gordon often go into tunnel vision mode, Porter can be a ball stopper, and Matthews has a happy trigger finger. You're not going to change those players natures entirely, but they've got to do a better job of running sets around Green rather than leave him sitting in the corner. I would say his passing and decision making has been better than I expected. I'd like to get him given more opportunity to do so. He's not going to be Harden, but I could see him as a very functional Booker / Beal level. The rebounding piece is a bit strange to me given his athleticism. I do notice even when he does get defensive rebounds, he looks to give the ball up immediately -- even Wood and Tate bring the ball up a decent amount of the time. I wonder if he's trying to leak out too much when the shot goes up, and not helping enough on that side -- I'll have to watch that more. Part of the value prop of Green was the expectation he could be a premium scorer with a relatively low usage (e.g., Klay Thompson). That makes his fit next to another star really easy (something that was always difficult with Harden), but probably means more early growing pains.
When I say hide I mean he isn't playing C like Allen is. It allows him to roam and it puts him in a good position to succeed. He is playing well and has had a good season. When I say hide, I mean if Allen isn't there, how is Mobley's current season? Probably not as good.
First, how do you define athlete? There is a wide variety of opinions on this. For example, Vince Carter was to some people the best athlete they have ever seen. To me he lacked fluidity and was too boxy in his movements and lacked the ability to stop on a dime. Is James Harden a great athlete? He can beat almost anyone off the dribble and there has likely never been a player that could stop as quickly as he does and with his level of body control. So it is subjective in many ways unless you discuss specific skills or measures. The idea that the dunk contest invalidates Green's athletic prowess is something I personally don't agree with. As a leaper, Green is as good as anyone in the league and that includes Edwards, Lavine and Morant. Green also has a very quick first step, only a handful of guys have that, Alexander with the Thunder comes to mind. Laterally Green isn't bad but he isn't elite like Morant can be or eve someone like Mobley. You know who is terrible laterally? Levine, Francis was too.... it allowed players to blow by them. Edwards is a lot stronger than Green, and the fact that he is a similar athlete with added weight makes him more impressive overall. However, Edwards lacks the hand dexterity or fluidity that Green has. Morant is a great all around athlete and if you want to say he is a better athlete than Green I wouldn't say you are wrong, he is a great all around athlete. At the end of the day, whether Green is the best athlete or the tenth best athlete in the league largely doesn't matter because in either case he has the athletic tools that elite scorers in the NBA have. If Green doesn't become an all star it won't be because he isn't a good enough athlete. I am not really a Green apologist, I wanted Mobley over Green and said that Barnes had a chance of being the best player in this draft. However, there are obvious reasons why Green is struggling and most (if not all) of those reasons can be fixed. Doesn't mean he will fix or improve them all, but they are at least doable.
IMO, Silas has not done a good enough job putting Green into a position to be the #1 scorer on the team.
Agree with a lot of this. I don’t really care that he bombed the dunk contest. It’s more the way he did it. Trying something he couldn’t seem to do without much of a plan. Then afterwards he talks about how he really needs to run it back in the contest next year but then when asked about if he would change approach he basically said “no I just didn’t finish the dunk.” I know we overanalyze this stuff but I’d either like him to say “I didn’t perform like I would like, but ultimately the main thing is getting better and helping my team win games and that is where I’m focused” or give an answer on why he’d do better in the contest if he got another shot. I also really am not sure about his answer that this was the most important weekend of his career.
Yeah, the reality is that right now Green just isn't having a big impact on the outcomes of games. His productivity is entirely based on how well he shoots and that will have to change for him to be a good player. Having said that, it is pretty obvious that the Rockets game plan isn't for him to force things or take 20 shots a game. Now, I suppose a good question would be why is that their game plan? Do they think he will be over exposed? Do they want him to learn to be a part of the offense, but not someone like James or Harden that runs the offense come hell or high water? The rebounding issue is in part because he has such poor core strength, and we see that impacting his ability to finish as well and draw fouls. The only thing that will change that is hard work on his core and confidence and experience. If this were the 1990's I would say he had no chance, but this is 2022 and the game is not at all physical. He can realistically not bulk up a lot, but work on his core and become adept. I am comfortable with Green playing entirely off ball in the future like a Booker or even a Ray Allen but I also think it is possible that he can develop into a ball handler and passer. He doesn't have Lavine level tunnel vision.
I don’t know that it would have to be Allen next to him but I agree that he looks better defensively not having to play most/all his minutes at the 5 and guard guys like Jokic and Embiid for a full game than if he’d gone to a team that would have drafted him to be their full time 5. He’d still look good though.
Mobley, like Chet, was not going to play the 5 right off the bat. But Mobley also has the skillset to play the forward position for a very long time. Similar to AD, Bosh, Giannis, KG due to his ability to defend multiple positions AND provide spacing on offense. FYI - Mobley and Sengun would have been an excellent pairing.
