How do you feel about Americans representing China in the Olympics?

Snowboarding is pretty cool

 

This isn't different than you?

"Having gone through the experience myself, and having extended family and friends who have gone through the immigrant experience from childhood to adulthood, I can only opine that this country has miles and miles to go if you care anything about concepts like fairness, equity and decency toward immigrants."

Looks to me like he is saying that in his experience, immigrants are not treated fairly or decently.

 

You're right I skimmed through that

@Rileydog

How are immigrants treated unfairly bt the government? Immigrants don't are jobs Americans won't do, they take jobs Americans can't do and are well compensated.

All the immigrants in Sugarland are treated unfairly? How so?

 

First, my views aren’t limited to how the government treats immigrants. And to put a finer point on it, my personal focus is the problems that exist with the people of this country and how far they have to go regarding treatment of immigrants (and by extension people of color).

I’m in my early 50’s. Compared to when I was a kid, America has progressed some and generally speaking is less ignorant, intolerant and/or racist as compared to the state of things in the 70s and 80s. That said, the ignoramus, intolerant, xenophobic racist types have been given a MAGAphone and this country has regressed significantly. People are more openly xenophobic, intolerant and racist than they were 15-20 years ago because it is widely accepted in disturbingly large segments of society. Open disdain for Hispanic people in Texas is prevalent and sickening. Since the onset of Covid, the same applies to Asians.

Beyond that, in the category of truly high level first world problems, corporate America is still dominated by white males and Asians, Hispanics, Blacks and other people of color continue to face a massive uphill battle to get near the C suite, Nevermind an actual seat at that table. The same holds true at the top of major law firms and other “elite” professions.

Those issues also manifest in more subtle ways: who gets good projects, who gets the backing of key executives, partners, or shareholders, how those key relationships are built. Of course, it is possible to outwork, out schmooze, out game, out hustle, out relate (that’s not even a legit phrase, but you get me) our white counterparts. And I’ve done that in my career.

But the point is the playing field isn’t close to level, implicit biases exist, outright racism exists. These white collar issues seem far afield from issues faced by “immigrants”, when we think of blue collar/labor class immigrants, right? But they aren’t that far afield. I was non English speaking, labor class, public school, lower middle class, and these white collar issues are relevant to this immigrant, and many many others I know.

But as to the labor class immigrants - yes, they/we take jobs that non immigrants won’t do. And we often don’t complain out loud, and certainly not to strangers. Are we “well compensated”? Well, relative to the conditions we left…maybe. Relative to the market value of our labor…perhaps. Was it a difficult and crappy struggle? Absolutely.

Should our society and its laws/rules be structured to provide more or better? That’s a philosophical debate we can have. But however you feel about those things, it is unquestionable that our society has massive issues relating to decency, equity and fairness, if people care about those things. It’s unquestionable that immigrants would be far better off if they were not viewed as rapists and murderers from sh-thole countries. Or bringers of the KungFlu.

Immigrants in sugarland? I’m assuming you are referring to the Asian and Indian immigrant communities out there. Like many groups, members of those groups likely gravitate to the same areas because they can find community, commonality and acceptance, and they have to deal with less of the increasingly vocal ignoramus community.

With respect to the government, a starting point is to not make things worse. Trump was a colossal failure and did irreparable harm to our country. His progeny in the Republican Party continue to shout into the MAGAphone and promote racism and xenophobia. At this point in the history of our country, I would gladly accept “do no harm” from the Republican Party as it relates to immigrants and people of color.

Edit: Perhapsyour view is that labor class immigrants get paid “well” and are happy about it, and don’t give a crap about politics or how republicans view or treat them. There may be some truth to that. Using Maslow’s heirarchy of needs as an analogy, certainly, a working class immigrant sure does care a lot more about how he is paid than whether someone thinks he is some dirty rapist or murderer. But that’s not how life works right? Why can’t a labor class immigrant be paid fairly and not be viewed as sub human.

 

Asian immigrants come here because and take jobs Americans can't and never could do
Hispanic immigrants take jobs Americans can't do anymore.

Both groups are well compensated. Both groups also start their own businesses. Both groups probably aren't heavily involved in politics because they don't need to be as in they are prosperous with things the way they are.

I am sympathetic to any unfairness any group of Americans suffers at the hands of another. That being said immigration is driven by economics and economics always wins. At the end of the day businesses need immigrants and politicians need business donations and we all need the services immigrants provide

 

I can tell y'all from first hand experience that immigrants do get treated badly. I vividly remember my parents being mocked, insulted and told to go back to where they came from. I was born here but I also had several experiences like that.

I know a lot of people who came here as refugees from Laos, Vietnam and Somali and all of them have similar stories.

This isn't to say that the US is overall hostile to immigrants or that hostility is the norm for the immigrant experience but it exists and is still ongoing.

 

Its not a hindrance which is my main concern. You can't legislate feelings

 

I love Hispanic immigrants and I wish black people would learn from their ambition and prosperity as it relates to their appreciation of American opportunity

I love working with them, socializing with them, I just love them

 

That depends how you define as hindrance. Hostility especially from store owners, employees at business and even government employees can make it difficult to lead a normal life. When you're ignored or delayed service because of hostility or have to worry about if they spit your food makes it hard to do thing.

And yes I've experienced those things.

 

Just to stress I'm it's not like things like above happen all the time and for me are infrequent but that doesn't mean being an immigrant in this country is easy and things go smoothly with no hindrance.

Also in addition to the outright hostile there are is a lot of ignorance and misunderstanding, most isn't meant to be hostile. For example just today I was in a small town in Minnesota at an Asian buffet. None of the other group I was with where Asian. Another patron, not part of our group, asked me to explain what some of the food was. TO be clear I don't work there, have no connection with this Asian buffet but this lady presumed that since I was the only other Asian that I was part of the staff or could explain what the food was.

I did tell her what the dishes were and didn't take any offense to it as she didn't mean any but it's an example of something that many immigrants go through daily.

 

i have no idea what point you are trying to make, but no, asian immigrants aren’t all coming here to do jobs Americans can’t do. Certainly a large chunk of Asian immigrants come here to doing things that everyone can do - manual labor, work at a convenience store, scoop ice cream, wash dishes, sack groceries, work retail. You must think that Asian immigrants are all brilliant math and science nerds and so they come here and are doctors,engineers and professors, like magic. That ain’t it. Maybe, just maybe, by outworking everyone, by making sacrifices, by good fortune, by scraping by, maybe their kids can get a western education and get there. But tons of immigrants come here and work the most humble, basic jobs that anyone could do.

 

bullshit, it’s not a hinderance. Small business loans. Home loans. Franchise applications. Health inspectors. Glass ceilings.

Not theoretical. Real. In my parents lives. in my adult life. And the lives of others I know and, with no amount of hyperbole, I can guess in the lives of many.

do you even live in the United States, or know the actual experience of immigrants?

 

Hispanic immigrants deal with systemic inequalities or outright racism all the time. Spend one day at a pro bono clinic and you’d see. Hispanic mother of two, stuck in an apartment lease, management refuses to address mold and burned out electrical sockets, on site management makes fun and chastises her because her English is bad, makes no attempt to even see what the problem is. 6 year old daughter develops illness because of mold conditions. That’s one case.

Unquestionably a “hinderance” to put it mildly. Putting it plainly, the apartment and medical bills are a hole too big for one Hispanic woman working two jobs to climb out of. It is a life wrecking “hinderance”.

But for a pro bono clinic, this lady is screwed. if her daughter got seriously ill, she would never get out of the hole that the medical bills create.

 

Hispanics get business loans. They don't own businesses?

 

Hispanics have passed Blacks in wealth

 

If they work at a convenience store a family member probably owns it. They definitely own ****

 

It's shocking how many people have this crazy fairy tale idea that immigrants come here and are "provided" an opportunity with open welcoming arms. That immigrants love it here so much and all feel it's totally much better than where they come from. I know my father missed home a lot and didn't feel respected here. He would get crap job offers for positions far more junior than he held before despite his greater experience. And we had similar stories of the insults and open hostility.

It amazes me how deluded people are in buying into this American mythology

 

what the hell do hispanics have anything to do with the point I was making - that immigrants, asian immigrants, deal with systematic unfairness if not outright racism in my own experience?

what the hell do black people have to do with Hispanics who goto legal pro bono clinics because they face housing discrimination

this is idiotic. Do some Asian people own convenience stores? Yes, Do they own every last convenience store in which Asian people work? No. I know dozens of Asian people who worked at convenience stores, sacked groceries, and the like. Including me Exactly zero of those stores were owned by their family members.


You seem to have stereotypes that you believe represent the facts and circumstances of all Asian and Hispanics immigrants. In fact, they do not.

You seem to believe that Asian and Hispanic people do not deal with systemic inequality, unfairness or outright racism, but they do.

Ultimately, you seem to want to believe things to support a construct where Asian people and Hispanic people are admirably hard working and successful, outperform black people, and do not care about, complain about, and basically do not experience inequality, racism or unfairness in any way … such that black people therefore should learn from these non complaining communities and emulate their shut up and dribble path to success.

 

You got it.

Now...be prepared for @pgabriel to claim you hate America and are playing the race card against him (whatever that means).

 

I haven’t seen anyone string together three consecutive r****ded posts like this in all my years at CF. I’m actually flabbergasted at the utter stupidity.

Asian people who have to have shitty jobs at gas stations, convenience stores or grocery stores work there because a family member own it? What mfing fantasyland is that and what ticket do I need to buy to move there?