A few thoughts 1. Capela fetched a mid first round pick. I think you guys are overrating what Allen could’ve been reasonably been expected to be flipped for. 2. Someone had to take on Prince’s salary. Most owners (especially Tilman) aren’t paying the tax for a team rebuilding. 3. Presti could’ve EASILY outbid the Cavs to jump in this without worrying about the tax. If Stone is dumb Presti is much dumber. I’m sure some other teams could’ve figured out a way to take on Prince’s deal and give up a better asset as well. 4. JayGup might be our best rebuilding piece right now. 5. Wood looked really promising as a 5 when we made the trade. A fit worry was legitimate.
Fit concerns on rebuilding teams is irresponsible if not downright incompetent. I hear this all the time on CF, remember drafting BPA regardless of fit???? So if you acquire young starter talent nevrmind with All Star potential, you keep said talent irregardless of fit.
Yeah I agree in a vacuum you don’t want to go overboard on fit concerns when rebuilding but it’s not just fit. It’s paying the tax while rebuilding + a $100mm contract to a guy the rest of the league didn’t seem to value that highly when he might not be able to play with the only player on your roster who at the time looked like a possible foundational piece. I of course wish we had Allen over Wood now, though.
People also seem to overrate how much we had to pay Allen. It was $100M/5. That's far from a max. $20M in 2022 is $10M in 2008. That's role player money. It's less than we gave Anderson. Around as much as Gordon is making now. Not even a fifth of the cap. Non-allstars like Hield, Barnes, Gary Harris, Gallinari, etc make more than that. Also, a VERY underrated part of the extension is that Allen's contract is $20M/year FIXED. That means that while the cap increases, it stays the same. The cap went up $8M last year. Imagine if it goes up $5-8M every year and in 2027 an all star player is still making $20M. He'll be 1/8 of the cap. That is an absolute steal. What are we even gonna do with cap space? No ones signing here any time soon.
Morey and the Rockets scouts would not be surprised by this. At all. Only Stone and Silas were oblivious to this potential.
This is what you’ve got to stop though. If you want to call scoreboard yourself on this, all good. However, the rest of the league didn’t top the Cavs offer of taking on Prince’s deal and giving up an unprotected first from a good team. Presti could have easily topped the Cavs offer. The teams with cap space also didn’t try to offer Allen a bigger deal than 5/$100 this summer either.
Not true. Do not lump all 3 players into a single FRP + Oladipo. Prince by himself netted Rubio + SRP + cash. LeVert netted a FRP + SRP. JA would have netted at least a higher FRP than the Bucks FRP. And JA is an All Star with best offensive rating AND best defensive rating. Stone fvcked up plain and simple. And CF has to stop letting him off the hook because he has proven to be in over his head in trades, drafts, FA signings AND coaching hires. He has had success with unearthing undrafted FA's but should not be a reason to blind yourself to the most critical responsibilities of a successful GM.
i mean no one can know anything conclusively but Surely you watched this year? CWood sucks when with another center. Idgaf if that’s on Silas or CWood. It hasn’t worked. JA would be the best center he’d be next to so maybe it’s be more successful than when next to Theis or Sengun but CWood is best as a “stretch 5” clearly. You’ve watched them this year yes?? Lol no argument that would rather have JA than CWood though.
I’m not sure why you’re arguing things that are almost unarguable. JA was not as valuable an asset at the beginning of last year as he is now. I’m not sure how this is arguable. He has career best or near career best in nearly every category this year while having more minutes and being the second best player on a top team in the conference and an all star. is there anyone that would argue he was just as valuable 1.5 yr ago as he is now?? Maybe some folks would still be put off by the contract but at this point that’s probably more a positive than negative. He’s locked in at a flat $20 per.
I disagree with some of this analysis, but the Cavs part of the initial deal is pretty easy to isolate. They sent out the 2022 Bucks pick and used a TPE and in exchange they got back Allen and took on Prince’s deal. If someone like the Thunder wanted Allen they could’ve just jumped in the Cavs place in the deal very easily and gotten him by giving up something better than that Bucks pick. It would have been harder for other over the cap teams to do it unless they had the right TPEs to get it done but there would be ways if they identified Allen as a guy they really wanted.
this is all nice and good…. IN HINDSIGHT As recently as this past offseason many folks thought it was an iffy signing. https://syndication.bleacherreport....rst-signings-of-2021-nba-free-agency.amp.html they had Derozan as the worst signing though so it’s that thing, everyone has opinions. https://sports.yahoo.com/2021-nba-f...-jarrett-allen-and-desperation-172659129.html again… opinions that were WRONG. but even then they point out good things. No one else was offering him 5 yrs $100 million. Yeah for the Cavs. It all worked for them lol. Ultimately the goal is to win a ring. Maybe this gets then there. They are certainly on the right track all their main guys are young af and they’re already performing well. there’s no doubt from a pure value standpoint Stone missed on moving LeVert and Allen.
The point of my post wasn't to argue that Allen was clearly worth $100M/5, which at the time I thought he was anyway but whatever. It's just to say that that's NOT some obscene amount of money. You see $100M bandied about like it's some massive franchise killer but over 5 years that's a very very reasonable number. Add to that the fact that it's FLAT, which you almost never see nowadays and it's an absolute steal. By 2027, the superstars might be signing for over $70M per year. Daniel Theiss types would probably be like $16M. Honestly, I've soured on Wood but if he'd take a 100/5 that's flat or better yet, frontloaded, I'd give it to him in a heartbeat.
Rockets offense sucked when Wood played with Theis. Or when Theis played without Wood. Wood himself still averaged a double double. Leave it to you to completely miss this important point, either via ignorance or just gaslighting yourself again.
If no one thought he was valuable then why was the primary argument vs NOT keeping JA was so Rockets would not need to pay him the max in offseason? These arguments are all archived. Get your excuses straight.
How is my post a strawman? You set up more of one than I did. We are just talking about Allen and you are actually straw manning by bringing up other parts of the trade and subsequent trades. The Cavs part is easy to isolate as-is the Pacers part. I was more responding to your post about Stone being some sort of unique idiot for undervaluing Allen. If you were smarter than Stone that’s cool, but the rest of the league underrated Allen as well. It’s pretty simple logical reasoning. You have to make some inferences about other teams being able to clear the room to jump in, but you don’t even have to do that with the Thunder. They could have easily gotten in the deal to get Allen without having to do anything else. Stone probably would’ve sent them Allen for something like changing last year’s pick protections to top 16 instead of top 4.
