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Forcing children to wear a mask is child abuse. The Left failed children.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Jan 31, 2022.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    The tide is turning, whether some of you like it or not.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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  3. AroundTheWorld

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    https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/02/why-progressives-cant-quit-their-masks/#slide-1

    Why Progressives Can’t Quit Their Masks
    By KEVIN D. WILLIAMSON
    February 13, 2022 6:30 AM
    • [​IMG]

    While there has been a quietly energetic campaign to memory-hole the fact, some of you will remember that, in the run-up to the 2020 presidential campaign, vaccine skepticism was a Democratic thing, not a Republican thing. Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Andrew Cuomo, and every third progressive nitwit on Twitter cast doubt on the safety and the efficacy of the Covid-19 vaccines that were being developed under Operation Warp Speed, the Trump administration’s program to expedite a vaccine. It was childishly predictable: With Election Day looming, anything that might redound to the credit of the Trump administration had to be cast into doubt or held up for scorn. We are governed by people who have never mentally or morally progressed beyond the politics of the junior-high lunchroom.

    After the election, the Democrats and the Republicans settled back into their familiar respective grooves. Republicans who had sympathized with the Trump administration’s early efforts to play down Covid-19 went back to pooh-poohing it, Democrats returned to their peculiar form of technocratic pietism. Democrats sacralized the vaccines, Republicans scorned them and talked up quack cures. And masks became the burqa of the Covid era, with the Subaru-mounted mutaween of suburbia zealously guarding the new public morality.

    The ritual covering of the head or face is an ancient tradition, one that is found in so many fundamentally different religions spread across so many disparate cultures as to make it a nearly universal phenomenon: Christians with their mantillas, wimples, and zucchettos; Muslims with their hijabs, niqabs, and chadors; the Hindu ghoonghat; the Jewish kippah and tichel; the Sikh dastār and chunni; the Buddhist zukin — from Muslims to Mennonites, from Tibet to Texas, head coverings and face coverings have long been, and continue to be, points of religious, political, and social sensitivity. We have grown so accustomed to considering it bad manners for a man to wear a hat indoors or at the table or while the national anthem is being sung that we do not even remember why that is, having forgotten the reason long ago. Ask the etiquette experts about this and they will fail to give you a persuasive answer: Removing the hat is a sign of respect, says Emily Post. Yes, but why?

    Given the weight that masking now has in our culture, it is amusing to consider the possibility put forward by some scholars that ritual head covering began as a sanitary measure — that hair first was covered in public as a prophylactic against infection by lice and other vermin. From thence, the theory goes, the covered head came to be a sign of physical cleanliness, and, by extension, moral purity.

    Whatever else it does or does not do, the Covid-era mask has taken on that role. It may not do much of anything to stop the spread of the virus, but it says something — in some contexts, a great deal — about what kind of person you are. I think that if I could learn two things about a person — the situations in which he will wear a mask even if it is not strictly required and the situations in which he will refuse to comply with a mask requirement — I could probably tell you for whom he voted in 2020. In Tibet, the two main monastic sects differentiate themselves by the color of their hats, red for one and yellow for the other. Puritans wore capotains (“pilgrim hats,” as they are commonly called) to set themselves apart from other, less austere Christians. The turbans that Sikhs wear are meant to symbolize social equality among believers, but they also communicate another message: Us and Them.

    So, too, with masks.

    And that is what is making unmasking — and a more general return to normal — so difficult for so many of our progressive friends: It has become a cultural and social issue, and a quasi-religious one at that. For a certain kind of progressive, giving up masking feels like giving in. It doesn’t feel to them like the epidemic has been beaten — it feels to them like they have been beaten, and their cultural enemies (Joe Rogan, and that estranged uncle who is angry on Facebook) have won.

    This is a near-guarantee of bitter social conflict. Consider the protests going on right now in Canada. Raquel Dancho, a Conservative MP, told the BBC that Canadians, normally an orderly people, have had enough: “We abide by all the rules. We stepped up, and we have 90 percent of Canadians vaccinated,” she said. “What we’re seeing now is that Canadians have come to the ends of their ropes. We’ve done our part, and now Canadians are looking to their governments and saying, ‘That’s enough of this. We need to move forward. What’s the plan?’” The problem with figures such as Justin Trudeau is that they have defined themselves wholly in opposition to their critics. What is Justin Trudeau? That is a question that really can be answered only in the negative: He is not x. We are in much the same situation in the United States, where the core identity of each political party is simply that it is not the other political party. The mask scolds at your local grocery store cannot give up ritual face-covering for the same reason the Judean People’s Front and the People’s Front of Judea cannot give up their mutual rivalry: Without it, they will not know themselves.

    But there are a great many Americans who are not fanatics, who do not live in Idaho militia compounds — voters in California and Connecticut and New Jersey who, like our Canadian neighbors, suspect that we missed the off ramp a few exits back and are due for a course correction. What they are running up against — and what Joe Biden is running up against among his own base — is a species of religious fanaticism. Like the declarations of progressives who once swore off “Trump vaccines,” it is a matter of identity, not a matter of policy, much less one of science. That is why a big Republican showing in the midterms will produce a convulsion among progressives, one that looks like a political crisis but that is, at heart, a spiritual crisis.

    The news on Covid is generally good these days. And I cannot remember another time in which generally good news has caused so much angst and misery.
    (bobakphoto/iStock/Getty Images)
    It is a matter of cultural identity, not a matter of policy or science.
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

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  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Speaking of child abuse, this is an interesting study that shows that children who were abused and never got therapy turn out to be conservatives. Kinda makes sense.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/3792222
     
  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Is there anyone in this thread that wants mandatory masking to continue and NOT wind down?
     
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  7. Commodore

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    nobody at the Super Bowl was wearing a mask (despite a city order to), but they are going to force little kids to mask up at school tomorrow

     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  8. AroundTheWorld

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  9. AroundTheWorld

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  10. AroundTheWorld

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  11. Gioan Baotixita

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    Children are screaming a big FU to Brandon, the Keebler Elf and every Dem out there.
     
  12. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    @AroundTheWorld what point are you trying to prove? Everyone in this thread knows how you feel. Pretty sure everyone in this thread is ready for any mask mandates to be done. Pretty sure everyone in this thread knows there has been hypocrisy from all sides during COVID. Pretty sure everyone knows that masks and vaccines are not completely effective nor have they ever been advertised as such. Pretty sure most everyone knows that opinions and such have evolved as more knowledge and data has accumulated. Pretty sure that everyone knows that countries chose to err on the side of caution with COVID and the different variants that have come along. Pretty sure that everyone knows that countries will start relaxing regulations as hospitalizations, deaths and cases decrease.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    Pretty sure that that hasn't been how the usual suspects reacted:

    @txtony seems to think it should be the norm that children wear masks:

    @NewRoxFan likens doctors or anyone else critical of masks to Qanon people.

    @dobro1229 is very angry at people critical of masks, calling them names.

    @deb4rockets posts the usual sob story of children not wearing masks being responsible for their older relatives' deaths.

    @Agent94 says, no worries, kids are fine with masks - without a time limit.

    @Duncan McDonuts says if you are critical of masks, you are probably about to die anyway.

    @Xerobull is angry at people critical of masks, calling them names.

    @JuanValdez thinks children should wear masks, that will teach them to not be so selfish!

    @DaDakota calls people critical of masks selfish assholes who should think of the good of grandma and grandpa (whom they would murder without a mask) and somehow gets close to the Goodwin rule doing it. He clearly doesn't have a time limit on wearing masks, but describes children mainly as vectors of disease.

    @DaDakota actually takes it a step further and calls people critical of masks for children (I guess including me) "hard-right Nazis".

    @DaDakota is usually a nice guy, just unfortunately mostly wrong about everything, including Eric Gordon being traded. Calling me and people critical of mask mandates for small children "hard right Nazis" is something he should apologize for, though.

    @TheFreak calls people critical of masks names.

    @krosfyah thinks freedom is a bad idea, and calls people critical of masks names.

    @Fyreball is really angry at people critical of masks.

    User @Squirtle (whom I never noticed before) got triggered by the thread.

    There were more of the usual suspects, such as @gifford1967 and @dmoneybangbang - not a single one of them actually said what you are saying, @bobrek, that they are ready for mask mandates to be lifted. Not a single one of them responded to my question when they would think the moment in time would be there to stop forcing children to wear masks.

    But many of them got very triggered and angry, calling me and others critical of mask-wearing names, from *******, idiot, maskhole, moron, Qanon supporter, Trump supporter, snowflake, all the way to Nazi (DD had to take the cake, as usual).

    Since I started this thread, and after many of these insults, Democrat governors have started abolishing mask mandates. Several Democrat governors have also been caught maskless in public settings, while still requiring small children in their state to wear masks many hours a day.

    It's time to unmask the children. Those who vehemently defend the policy of masking children all day and who aggressively called people names for asking to abolish this misguided policy are on the wrong side of history.

    Of course, once the Left gives up their "mandates" in light of the public demanding that, these posters will be just like the Washington Post...they will say "it was right at the time" or "it didn't make much of a difference anyway". They will never admit they were wrong.

    What will not be forgotten is how toxic and hateful their rhetoric has been against those who were merely speaking up for children to not have to be forced to wear masks all day.
     
  14. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    What's your problem other than misinterpreting stuff to twist your story? You are so off base in quoting me it is like a fairy tale. Dude, I never blamed kids for their parents's deaths. I said
    "I feel more sorry for the kids left without a parent after they ended up dying in a hospital hooked to a respirator, still in denial that Covid was more than a flu."

    I told you that once and I'll tell you again, quit twisting the story. Let me put explain it in more detail so you can process it better.

    There were millions of Trump followers chanting "Covid is a hoax", "Biden"s Hiding in the Basement", "My Body My Choice", and other crap during the height of the pandemic. There were thousands gathering in masses as doctors and nurses pleaded from overcrowded hospitals.

    The footage of people in hallways and tents on ventilators didn't phase those types. They cheered with Trump as they and gathered in crowds at rallies, making fun of Biden and Covid. Trump egged them on. Nurses and doctors saw those same types hooked to a respirator and dying, still believing Covid was a hoax.

    The kids of those types are the ones I feel sorry for. Maybe their parents were brainwashed by Trump. maybe it was ignorance, maybe it was political rebellion, or maybe they were just selfish and didn't want to stop having fun. I don't know, but it is many of those types who still refuse to vaccinate.
    .
    If they really loved their kids they wouldn't have risked leaving them without a parent by doing all that stuff, increasing the chances of spread and infection.

    So, the kids I feel sorry for are the ones with those Selfish, ignorant, Brainwashed, or Trump Cult parents that died still calling Covid a hoax.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    So, @deb4rockets, thanks for telling us whom you feel sorry for.

    The subject of the thread is whether children should continue to be forced to wear masks, though.

    Do you think they should, and if yes, for how long?

    Thanks.
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    that's a pretty good post
     
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    But that's the point... since the very beginning the retrumplicans have ignored the pandemic, then argued against any efforts to combat the pandemic (there are only 20 cases, its going to magically disappear, its only the flu, its the China Flu, masks don't work, vaccines don't work, vaccines aren't vaccines) and pumped out misinformation (drink bleach, take horse pills). They have debated, argued against and belittled science, scientists, medical professionals, and organizations that have been fighting diseases and promoting health for decades.

    And why... politics (worse, in some bizarre effort to defend trump... "see, he was right all along!"). It doesn't matter how many have died ("they didn't die from COVID" or "they were old or sick, or..."). Doesn't matter how many were hospitalized ("the hospitals were only in it for money").
     
  18. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Oh give me a break. That’s a very self righteous post if I’ve ever seen one. You took quotes out of context like mine and create this victimization fantasy right wingers always conjure up as usual.

    My post calling people idiots or whatever was clearly about people who don’t understand the simple physics of a barrier between your mouth and nose actually benefiting a human from avoiding a virus that enters your body…. Through your damn nose and mouth.

    I’m soooooo sorry that one might offend you but it is very true that if you believe that doctors in ER’s and surgeons are just wearing masks for no reason then yeah… you are dumb.

    The conversation around mandates and children is different context completely. The science and logic backs up imposing them during peaks of a pandemic though with an airborne virus that enters the body through the persons mouth and nose.

    So yeah reasonable people can talk about when and where to issue these mandates, but the truth is during a peak places like the school cafeteria might as well be a Covid ward with as much virus that is being blown around. The school superintendent and principles should have the ability to protect children in order to avoid their school having to close down. It’s a very very small price to pay in order to avoid everyone’s children having to miss school for weeks like what happened this year because right wingers in Texas like you vote for people who refuse to allow people in charge of these decisions to actually make decisions based on common freaking sense.

    So I’m soooooo sorry you are offended but yeah if you are going to be someone that votes in bombastic right wingers on school boards who make nonsense claims about masks and vaccines that are in contrast with basic science and those right wing school board members are the reason why the super and principles cannot enforce mandates when there is a spike and that leads to my kid missing weeks of school which ends up meaning I can’t really work 100% because I’m watching my kid all day long….

    Yeah… you suck if that’s you and I don’t feel the least bad with a little light name calling. Can we talk about state wide mandates vs localized ones?? Sure, but my guess is there’s no room on the right even to empower at the local level. Mandates= bad. The conversation on the right has never supported dialogue and compromise with nuance and you know that.
     
    #538 dobro1229, Feb 14, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2022
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  19. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    You came up with this response 15 minutes after my post? Did you have it locked and loaded? You've twisted a lot of those comments out of context. For example, how was JuanValdez's comment negative at all or counter to anything I posted?

    And, you're logic that simply because someone hasn't publicly commented that they are ready for any continuing mandates to be lifted doesn't mean that that are not ready for mask mandates to be lifted. I guess until a couple of days ago, I must not have wanted mask mandates to be lifted because prior to answering your question, I don't think I have written on this board when they should be lifted.

    I guess in your opinion (and please correct me if I'm wrong) knowing what we knew TWO YEARS AGO, you would have advised all world leaders to not force folks to mask up.
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    That doesn't even come close to encapsulating what my thoughts are.

    It should be a norm to wear a mask when sick. That's the norm in many Asian countries. That doesn't mean mandate. It depends on the situation. Very early on (no vaccine, no treatments, many unknown, exp spread), though I never actually stated in here as far as I can remember, I was for mandating masks in school. I think that should always be an option should there be any major new wave. Outside of that and while we are still having a high spread, I think masking should be encouraged but optional. That would include said a future severe flu wave. And in normal times, masking should be the norm when you go to work or attend school while sick.

    EDIT: If that isn't clear: no need for mask mandates at this time. It should be optional but encouraged.

    No need to presume. Asked me directly and I would give you my opinion.
     
    #540 Amiga, Feb 14, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2022
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