[McWhorter] The New N-Word Standard Isn’t Progress

I thought Sam Harris' latest podcast on this was pretty well done.

https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/273-joe-rogan-and-the-ethics-of-apology

It is a strange time to live in where a word has such a drastically divergent relationship with differing groups within a single culture.

 

Honestly, I just see all of it as just mental sparring, and I enjoy sparring with you because it's thought provoking and interesting and didn't even pick up on any hostility or anything.

We're all ready for COVID to be over - it's a pain in the ass. I had hoped with the amount of spread, the less threatening but more contagious strain of Omicron, and the penetration of vaccine in the population, that things could finally be put behind us with the politics of masks and mandates, but sadly not the case.

Hopefully you can enjoy your weekend and reset.

 

Good article. I understand the reaction of “Why do you care so much about being able to say the N-word”?

I don’t — but a rule that forbids uttering the N-word, regardless of context, if you don’t have a certain genetic lineage feels like a backwards religious stricture.

 

It really does feel like the hypersensitivity around it causes it to retain and gain power, which is exactly what you don't want.

McWorters point about it being particularly demeaning to black people to expect them to crumble into infinity dust upon hearing it is also well made.

When it comes to language, putting something in Voldemort territory usually isn't a good answer.

 

I get that the utterance of the n-word stirs strong feelings in people, like an image of Christ or Mohammed might.

It has evolved into a kind of religious verbal totem for racism against Black people. I try to be careful around people’s religious sensitivities — not looking to bring emotional distress to people. But I think issues of racism warrant open and honest dialogue, and that’s difficult when the way you talk about it is policed so vigorously.

 

I generally agree with what the op-ed says and I think we as a culture tend to twist ourselves around regarding things like the N-word. As someone who's not white I've been called the N-Word as an insult by White people but also as a term of endearment by black people. As recently as last summer a Native American woman mistaking me for a Native American at a party called me her "N-word" as 'endearment'.

For me personally I've never felt left out though that it's socially unacceptable if I use the word as either an insult or term of endearment but I'm against the idea that a term is absolutely taboo under any context to some people and perfectly acceptable under some context. I get that adoption of the term, 'reclaiming it' is a part of tribal identity such as the gay community has adopted the term "queer". Tribalism isn't always a good thing and much of a time is a problem.

The one thing I am very against though is banning of books, movies and music with the term by government entities like school boards. Yes it does make people uncomfortable to modern ears to hear it used so casually by people writers like Twain and Harper Lee but that is what the society was like then and trying to spare students or more likely parents, discomfort over that term while ignoring the deeper message of that literature is one reason we have so much ignorance these days.


Like much else of our culture though there are higher philosophical arguments and their are practical arguments like how do you get through your day being respectful of others. So I can agree in principle the word shouldn't be completely taboo but at the same time unless you're prepared to deal with having a long conversation with HR wouldn't go around calling your black co-workers "MY N-Word!" at your office.

 

Both sides like to tell people what to do just different things.
Both sides like to take people's money and give it to other people just in different ways.
Both sides like to the ruin people's lives because they don't like what they say even if it has no effect on you.
And certainly both sides are expanding control of the government over individuals. Heck the "Right" is deputizing private citizens land using tort law as a work around to exert more control over individuals.

These days it's sometimes hard to tell the difference when you have self-declared Rightist talking about class struggle and using protest to bring down Global Capitalism.

 

To the same extent, on the same number of issues? Give me a list of all the things you think the right (not the religious right, the right generally) wants to tell people what to do on, and I guarantee I can give you a longer list for the left where they put much more energy into it. The big one ones on the right are abortion and crime (don't do them). Other than that, people on the right tend to leave you alone.

Who wants to take more (ie calls for higher taxation)? Who wants to give it to others more (ie social programs vs. concrete government spending)?

Who does it more, about more topics. Right wing cancel culture is far less developed. The couple of high profile examples are all based on anti-patriotism (the Dixie Chicks and Bill Maher). How many high profile examples can you find of cancel culture from the left?

Who does it more? Which side wants more regulations, more mandates?

That is certainly a strange position for a right leaning person to take. Being on the right is fundamentally to be for economic freedom and capitalism and against the idea of classes and pitting them against each other (the fundamental foundation of the economic left).

The examples proving my point are far too numerous to list, but the article which is the topic of this thread is a fine place to start.

 

I really don't see it at all. In liberal circles I don't hear people talking about the n-word or all these topics that the right claims the left cares about so much. That's because they don't care as much as you think. The right and the media is the ones who takes a small thing and blows it up into a massive thing. What I do hear from the right in the circles I float in is a lot of grief about BLM and Antifa, about immigrants, about mask mandates, about Covid.

So I think you are confusing opinion pieces as to what people actually care about.

 

I guess you missed the whole thing with Joe Rogan and Spotify. Or did you think it was right wingers that were trying to cancel him? What about the thing with Dave Chappell? Did you miss that one too?

Most people generally do not obsess about what other people say or do that doesn't affect them. Among the smaller subset of people that do care, the ones that are going after people for saying words they disagree with are generally on the left. People care about mask mandates because that is other people directly telling them what to do (which is what I said the right cares about, and you said that it was my narrative but not reality). The left supports mandates (expanding the control of government over the individual). BLM is literally about cancelling people (it was made to cancel George Zimmerman and the police who initially didn't arrest him and revived to cancel the cop who shot Mike Brown and the DA that wouldn't charge him), which is what you said the left doesn't do. I guess you think BLM is both right wing and complained about by the right? The right complains about immigrants because they don't want their money taken and given to immigrants (which again, is what I said the right cares about). You are really just proving exactly what I said to be true.

 

@IBTL

 

I've just always thought that saying a word and saying a word for a reason/meaning are 2 different things.

I totally understand why people would feel otherwise.

 

Like about interracial marriage or reproduction, black literacy, black voting rights, blacks living or being educated anywhere near whites? Do you really need to call me a n----- this badly?

 

You lost 95% of readers at the word ‘mores’

(yes, I know what it is)

 

I think we learned all we need to know about this debate from this guy.

 

You're missing my point. The average liberal doesn't follow this crap. They aren't following the whole Joe Rogan / Neil Young thing. That's not what they care about. It's a few celebrities and the media blowing it up. And you ASSUME it's what liberals talk and care about. But we only learn about it after there's a big fuss. In other words, it's not liberals driving the narrative.

Look at who is posting all the threads about in on this forum! How many of them are from the liberals on this board, and how many from the right - from what I can count, ALL are from right-wing posters. Don't tell me this is what liberals care about. Sheesh.

 

People on the Right tend to leave you alone? I suppose groups like the Moral Majority and other social conservative groups aren't on the Right. Oh yes I see you carved out an exception from the religious right. In which case we can carve out Social Justice Warriors from the Left and say that the Left generally leaves people alone. But you asked for a list:
Abortion
The TX law that puts a bounty on anyone involved in an abortion even outside of TX.
FL and TX laws saying that private entities such as private schools and businesses cannot put in their own mask or vaccine mandates.
mar1juana legalization
Many Red States still have Sodomy laws on the books.
While gay marriage was legalized there still is opposition from it on the Right.
Many suburban and rural communities that tend to vote Republican have restrictive zoning laws that prevent denser property development.
Counties like Kennesaw, GA MANDATING gun ownership.
New VA governor Glenn Youngkin is setting up a hotline for parents to call in if they hear of teachers teaching things they find uncomfortable.
The current obsession with telling private businesses that they have to keep certain people on their platforms.
Demanding that a private individual and property owner has to continue to publish their intellectual property even though few people were buying it (Geisel AKA Dr. Suess, Estate)
Complaining that a private business has to put in one of their property into a New movie (Pepe LePew in Space Jam 2)
Demanding that a private entity has to fire players and employees for taking unpopular political stances (NFL, NBA and MLB)
Boycotting private entities such as Coca-Cola and Delta for company statements they made around hot button political issues
I can keep on going.

Just in TX because they've cut so many taxes while not massively reducing spending they're funding through "service fees". In other words they're still taking more government money but just through different means. As far as giving money several Republican led states were giving money through unemployment aid to people who lost their jobs because they VOLUNTARILY didn't take the vaccines.

Also you just need to look at the states which receive the most Federal help compared to which states pay the most in taxes to see what wealth redistribution really looks like.
https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/
https://www.moneyrates.com/research-center/federal-income-taxes-by-state.htm

I see you're carving out an exception here too. I suppose we could cut out sexual harassments and see how much cancel culture is from the Left.
Anyway a lot of this isn't anti-patriotism. Here's a list of people's lives how have been very negatively effected from the Right:
Colin Kaepernick still isn't playing in the NFL even as the likes of Andy Dalton are still getting starts.
Former Safety Eric Reid who played for SF and Carolina also was released and hasn't been signed since 2020 after making some very strong statements regarding police brutality and the NFL collective bargaining.
Alex Vindman and his brother lost his White House positions for Alex Vindman doing his duty. Alex Vindman has also been facing death threats.
Dr. Fauci and other medical professionals has faced many threats to his life and now requires security.
Also just recently the RNC formally censured Reps. Cheney and Kinzinger for the Jan. 6th House Committee. While they have been pilloried Right Wing media.
Many former Republican officials have lost jobs and positions due to opposition to Trump.
In addition to the famous people many people around the country living in more conservative areas are dealing with threats and stigmatization. I posted an article about a small town newspaper publisher in rural MN facing threats. Many members of school boards and local health officials have also faced threats from people upset over CRT and/or public health measures.

Republican states have put in regulations like the TX abortion laws, laws banning CRT or even just teachings that make people uncomfortable. As noted TX and FL's governor have banned private businesses from putting in their own measures to deal with COVID.

At this moment many on the Right are celebrating a truck protest that is specifically meant to inflict economic pain. Many are portraying this as working class struggle. In fact on this very forum a Right Leaning poster was calling this a "class conflict". Trump and the TEA Party frequently portrayed their movement as class struggle of the working class against Global Elites. Many of Trump's policies directly targeted free trade and his rhetoric was very protectionist, which by nature is anti Capitalistic.

SO yes the examples of how the Right aren't what you think they are is too numerous to list.

The current Rightwing isn't the Libertarian Capitalist or even Constitutional movement but to a large extent a Nativist Protectionist movement driven by cultural grievances both real and imagined.

That doesn't mean that the current Leftwing doesn't engage in the things you say. Of course. That doesn't mean that the current Right is somehow innocent in this.

 

@AroundTheWorld
Israel understands the use of the N word