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Forcing children to wear a mask is child abuse. The Left failed children.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Jan 31, 2022.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    lol. Two states with roughly similar characteristics implemented different COVID policies. The state that had tighter regulation around masking and vaccination had significantly fewer deaths (even when adjusted for age) per 100,000 residents. Your misguided bleating about "freedumbs" is not data.

    Your welcome.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  2. Gioan Baotixita

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    Kinda late to the party ain’tcha? Stacey Abrams says HI. Lol
     
  3. Gioan Baotixita

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    Eating children, Bwahahaha. All that I’m saying is FU to the losers who are in charge. This is real talk from me and nothing else, there is no paranoia, conspiracy or Q or whatever the crap that the left always branded me.

    They have been wrong on every decision, every mandate, every policy, every prediction, every lockdown. A wise and free thinking man has the innate sense of knowing who is speaking the truth and who is lying. We all have that in ourselves, it’s when we are relying on these weasels to run our lives, that is when our freedoms, our common sense and our free thinking will be stripped away.

    Those who are in charge would want nothing more than a bunch of sheep as subjects, much better to control than a bunch of free thinkers. However; this is still America and you can be whoever the hell you want to be.

    Just let me be me.
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

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    It's actually really amusing that you think the stats you pulled out somehow support your argument.

    "Significantly fewer deaths"?

    249 vs. 231 out of 100,000 who died with (not necessarily of) Covid, you really think that is statistically significant?

    18 out of 100,000, that's 0.018 % difference.

    They are both middle of the pack.

    There is a reason why so many Californians want to escape to Florida.

    It's hilarious how the believers in big government actually think that a pandemic gives much of a **** about pseudo measures.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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  6. AroundTheWorld

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    Their freedom day was weeks ago. Nobody wears masks in the entire country for the most part, certainly not in schools.
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    [​IMG]

    Neither of these three Scandinavian countries ever had a mask mandate for children under 12 years old. Much of the US did.

    Neither of these three Scandinavian countries ever forced children to wear masks on planes. The US forced children from 2 years old, a rule which was introduced under the Biden administration.
     
  8. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    serious discussion.

    You rant like a nut.

    You are a grown adult who likes calling people (public figures) names, like a five year old child. It’s embarrassing.

    You believe you are intelligent, free thinking and wise. But you post like child who cannot reason, so he resorts to raising his voice or yelling insults.

    You could do better, maybe. But I think you like the exercise of yelling at and around people behind an anonymous keyboard.
     
    rocketsjudoka likes this.
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    He's a lonely pathetic boomer/elder Xer who can't pay his debts (and by extension support Clutch), yet wants attention or validation among folk he doesn't even respect with fans to a team he most likely doesn't even watch.
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

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    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666535221001221

    [​IMG]
    Public Health in Practice
    Volume 2, November 2021, 100197
    [​IMG]
    Commentary
    Making pre-school children wear masks is bad public health

    Author links open overlay panelRobert C.HughesaSunil S.BhopalabMarkTomlinsoncd
    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.puhip.2021.100197Get rights and content
    Under a Creative Commons license
    Open access

    Abstract
    Children are not small adults. This is a critical point that many pediatricians and other child health professionals get bored of saying, yet it does seem to need repeating. While children have the lowest risk from COVID-19 directly, they risk suffering the indirect impacts of policy decisions, many of which appear to have been made with next to no explicit consideration of their interests. Public health interventions should not only be about infectious disease control, they should consider a broad set of outcomes. In addition, they ought to consider vulnerability, including that in early childhood - a time when young children's brains are developing rapidly and are most susceptible to adversity. We believe that mandating masking of pre-school children is not in line with public health principles, and needs to be urgently re-considered.

    Keywords
    COVID-19
    Child health and development
    Early childhood development
    Childcare
    Last week, President Biden's Chief Medical Adviser Dr Fauci promoted the new US CDC Childcare Guidance, which states that “Masks should be worn indoors by all individuals (ages 2 and older) who are not fully vaccinated [1]. We feel that the CDC and Dr Fauci have, by focusing exclusively on SARS-CoV-2 transmission, got this wrong, and that this guidance is not good public health when the limited potential benefits of this policy are considered alongside the potential harms.

    The importance of early childhood for the rest of a person's life is now well understood; what happens in those early moments really matters, and changing the beginning has the potential to change the whole story - including learning, earning and happiness [2]. In addition, the centrality of responsive caregiving and interaction - such as that between peers and with caregivers in the home and childcare settings - is increasingly well appreciated, affecting language and social-emotional development and IQ [3].

    This interaction and engagement is much more than an optional ‘nice to have’ that can be deferred for a few years whilst the pandemic is controlled; the window of ensuring optimal early childhood development is short [4]. During this period moment by moment engagement, caregiver responsiveness, and learning of social cues (including by reading the faces of caregivers and others) are crucial for early socio-emotional development, for learning the ‘give and take’ of peer interaction and crucially for developing a ‘theory of mind’ [5]. It would be considered grossly unethical to attempt to assess the impact of covering the faces of young children and their caregivers on early childhood development. The potential for harm here is clear, especially when you consider the long hours that many children spend in childcare settings [6].

    These risks to early childhood development are especially concerning when balanced against the potential benefits that mandating young children to wear masks might plausibly bring (even before considering likely levels of ‘compliance’ with mask wearing amongst toddlers). There are three potential benefits here that seem worthy of consideration; reduced risk of Covid-19 to the child and their peers, reduced risks to their caregivers, and wider benefits for SARS-CoV-2 epidemic control.

    Considering the first of these, it is increasingly clear that SARS-CoV-2 - thankfully - represents an extremely low mortality risk to children [7]. In addition, current experimental estimates of the risks of prolonged symptoms also suggest that these are uncommon amongst young children [8] and likely similar to risks they face from other viruses.

    Regarding the risk that unmasked toddlers represent to adults caring for them, in the US and other high-income countries, childcare staff have now been, or are being, offered highly effective vaccines which significantly reduce their risk of staff acquiring SARS-CoV-2, especially from young paucisymptomatic or asymptomatic young children.

    Finally, while the wellbeing of the young children and their caregivers who are the subject of this policy ought to be central to decision making, it is worth noting that the contribution of pre-school settings to wider epidemic dynamics appears to be limited and less than that of secondary schools or universities [9]. This may be due to younger children having mostly asymptomatic infection, with associated lower secondary attack rates and onward transmission.

    As the consensus builds that SARS-CoV-2 will become an endemic pathogen it is crucial that we focus our effort on interventions that are as harm-free and benefit-rich as possible. This may well include mask wearing amongst healthy adults becoming a collective cultural activity where it makes sense (for example in crowded places, especially indoors and where ventilation is poor). But we do not feel that extension of this intervention to pre-school children is to be advised, let alone mandated. It is noteworthy that the World Health Organization explicitly advises against masking young children under the age of six [10].

    In summary, the benefits of masking pre-school children are unclear but are probably too small to make a major difference to individuals risks from SARS-CoV-2 or epidemic control (even before considering variable likely compliance amongst toddlers). In contrast, the harms of this policy are likely to be damaging, potentially considerably so. Given this, and the influence that the CDC and Dr Fauci have both in the US and globally, we believe an urgent re-consideration of this policy is needed.

    Declaration of interests
    The authors declare that they have no known competing financial interests or personal relationships that could have appeared to influence the work reported in this paper.

    Funding
    None received for this work.

    Declaration of competing interest
    The authors declare that they have no known competing financial interests or personal relationships that could have appeared to influence the work reported in this paper.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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    It's actually quite insane that Fauci, the 81 year old man who arguably had some ties to the gain-of-function experiments conducted in Wuhan, is the person who is one of the drivers of this mask mandate for 2 year olds.

    Fauci also schemed to smear scientists who were against the China-style lockdowns.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-try-smear-experts-called-end-lockdowns.html

    'There needs to be a quick and devastating take down': Emails show how Fauci and head of NIH worked to discredit three experts who penned the Great Barrington Declaration which called for an end to lockdowns
    • The emails show Fauci and NIH Director Francis Collins attempting to coordinate a 'devastating takedown' of the Great Barrington Declaration (GBD)
    • AIER, a libertarian think tank, sponsored the GBD, which largely abandons lockdowns in favor of herd immunity strategy that allows life to return to normal
    • In an October 8 email from Collins to Fauci, the head of the NIH calls the GBD the work of 'three fringe epidemiologists' that 'seems to be getting a lot of attention'
    • Collins adds that 'there needs to be a quick and devastating published takedown of its premises. I don't see anything like that online yet - is it underway?'
    • Fauci later sends Collins multiple op-eds trashing the GBD in Wired and The Nation Magazine
    • Dr. Jay Bhattacharya - one of the authors and a DailyMail.com contributor - tweeted that he was the subject of a propaganda attack by his own government
    By STEPHEN M. LEPORE FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

    PUBLISHED: 00:16 GMT, 19 December 2021 | UPDATED: 13:16 GMT, 19 December 2021



    Dr. Anthony Fauci and the head of the National Institute of Health (NIH) colluded on a way to discredit an alternative plan to deal with COVID from a group of experts, released emails reveal.

    The emails, some of which were tweeted out on Saturday by Phil Magness, senior research faculty and interim research and education director at the American Institute for Economic Research (AIER), show Fauci and Francis Collins attempting to coordinate a 'devastating takedown' of the Great Barrington Declaration.

    AIER, a libertarian think tank, sponsored the declaration, which largely abandons lockdowns in favor of a herd immunity strategy that allows life to return to normal.

    In an October 8 email from Collins to Fauci, the head of the NIH calls the GBD the work of 'three fringe epidemiologists' that 'seems to be getting a lot of attention.'

    Collins adds that 'there needs to be a quick and devastating published takedown of its premises. I don't see anything like that online yet - is it underway?'

    Later in the day, Fauci sends Collins a Wired op-ed that refutes the notion of herd immunity stopping the pandemic.

    Collins then sends Fauci an op-ed in The Nation also trashing the GBD.

    [​IMG]
    An email from NIH Director Francis Collins telling Anthony Fauci that there needed to be a 'devastating published take down' of the Great Barrington Declaration

    [​IMG]
    Later in the day, Fauci sends along a piece from wired that Fauci said 'debunks this theory,' which relies heavily on ending lockdowns and herd immunity

    [​IMG]
    Fauci sends him along another op-ed from The Nation Magazine trashing the Great Barrington Declaration

    A few days later, Collins emails Fauci a Washington Post op-ed he's quoted in headlined 'Proposal to hasten herd immunity to the coronavirus grabs White House attention but appalls top scientists.'

    Collins - working under former President Donald Trump at the time - said 'my quotes are accurate but will not be appreciated in the [White House].'

    Fauci responds: 'They are too busy with other things to worry about this. What you said was entirely correct.'

    Later, Gregg Gonsalves - the writer of The Nation op-ed - sends Collins an email thanking him with a subject line that includes saying legendary AIDS activist Larry Kramer 'would be proud.'

    Collins responds with a smiley face.

    [​IMG]
    A few days later, Collins emails Fauci a Washington Post op-ed he's quoted in headlined 'Proposal to hasten herd immunity to the coronavirus grabs White House attention but appalls top scientists'

    [​IMG]
    Collins is later thanked by Gregg Gonsalves, who wrote the op-ed trashing the GBD in The Nation

    The GBD - authored by previous DailyMail.com contributor Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, Sunetra Gupta of the University of Oxford and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University, calls for individuals at significantly lower risk of dying from COVID-19 – as well as those at higher risk who so wish – to be allowed 'to resume their normal lives.'

    That would mean allowing people in low risk groups to go to offices, hang out in bars and restaurants and go to sporting and entertainment events.

    The centerpiece of the declaration, according to Dr. Bhattacharya, is a call for increased focused protection of the vulnerable older population, who are more than a thousand times more likely to die from COVID infection than the young.

    The declaration makes no mention of social distancing, masks, tracing, or long-term Covid cases but suggests that increased infection of those at lower risks would build herd immunity.

    Bhattacharya tweeted in response to the emails: 'So now I know what it feels like to be the subject of a propaganda attack by my own government. Discussion and engagement would have been a better path.'

    [​IMG]
    Drs Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, Sunetra Gupta of Oxford University and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University, the main authors of the Great Barrington Declaration

    [​IMG]
    Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and the Chief Medical Advisor to the President

    [​IMG]
    Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) under both Presidents Trump and Biden Francis Collins

    [​IMG]
    Phil Magness, Senior Research Faculty and Interim Research and Education Director at the American Institute for Economic Research

    [​IMG]



    The emails - which happened while Fauci and Collins were working under President Trump - come as President Biden continues to struggle with the explosion of the Omicron variant across the country.

    Biden will deliver a speech on Tuesday to announce new Covid measures to fight the rapidly-spreading Omicron variant.

    It's anticipated that he will go beyond his already revealed 'Winter Plan' and address booster shots, lockdowns and mask mandates.

    Earlier this month Biden announced a Covid plan to battle the virus throughout the colder months, which included booster shots for all adults, vaccinations for kids in efforts to keep schools open and expanding free at-home Covid testing.

    [​IMG]
    As of Saturday morning, there were 830 cases of the Omicron Covid-19 variant confirmed by DNA sequencing across the country, a 97 percent increase from Friday morning's tally.

    In reality, the true number of Omicron cases is much higher, as only 1 to 2 percent of all cases are sequenced for variant markers, but the testing data shows a disturbing national trend.

    The CDC estimates that Omicron accounts for at least 13 percent of all new cases in New York, which on Saturday recorded its highest single-day tally of new Covid-19 cases ever at 29,908 - breaking its previous record of 21,027 set just one day earlier.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    'The winter Covid-19 surge is here,' warned New York Governor Kathy Hochul, urging everyone to get vaccinated and boosted.

    Though New York's hospitalizations, which tend to lag new cases, remain below their peaks, they have climbed 25 percent in the past two weeks, straining the state's healthcare system.

    Testing has now confirmed the presence of Omicron in every US state except for Oklahoma, Montana, North and South Dakota, Indiana, and Vermont, though the eventual confirmation of the highly transmissible variant in every state now seems assured.
     
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  12. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    ATW -

    I honestly don’t know how parents with little kids (elementary school and younger) have dealt with Covid and feel for them, yourself included. Should little kids be vaccinated? How does distancing and masking impact their development? How does obsessive washing of hands impact their minds and does it create unhealthy germaphobia? What are the risks to their health long term if they get Covid? It all sucks.

    personally, I think that pre omicron, generally speaking, the right calls were made with a lean toward protection against Covid.

    WRT Omicron, the knowledge that it is less dangerous, fewer hospitalizations, a less restrictive approach would be more understandable. Not necessarily right, or the clear right answer, but certainly more “on the table” than during delta for example. In this omicron phase, I can see how parents of the littles take the position that masking and vaccines are too much…over 1.5 years already, omicron is less dangerous…enough. I need my littles to be normal, to develop, to grow etc.

    The folks with the outrage based on “freedumb!!!”, gobmint can’t tell me what to do … they’re idiots. Their views aren’t based on anything other than hate for the other side. The folks who are parents who desperately want the best for their little kids in this terrible two years - I get it. There isn’t a clear right answer, and the choices are imperfect.

    My friends with little ones have dealt with this the best way they can. Kids mask at school as/if required, play dates in parent organized “pods” where there is a trust and understanding among parents that they are living a risk managed lives (not out partying, eating at restaurants during pre omicron era), difficult decisions on whether to vaccinate the littles.

    I don’t know if it’s harder on the littles and their parents, or on the teens and their parents. The teens need social engagement, adolescent development, sports, theater arts, dates, dances, in person learning. It’s not been easy with them either.

    But in both cases, parenting bridges the gap, patches the potholes. Good luck with yours
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

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    In the United States most children aren't in school for 8 hours a day either.
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

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    Did she sexually harass underlings?
     
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  15. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Including bus rides 8 hours is pretty close. Generally 8-3 (give or take) + travel time. Then extra curricula activities for older kids
     
  16. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    Have you maybe thought it isn't what the mask is doing to them, but what your stated oppositithen? them wearing a mask is doing to them?
     
  17. Gioan Baotixita

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    And you are just a little scared rabbit who hasn’t got the guts to live like a free person. There are no reasonings with lost sheep such as yourself, and that’s why, I cut circles and get straight to the point.

    My names for these public losers are totally awesome and creative, you’re just envious that you couldn’t think of them first. I understand your frustrations. School is open if you want enroll, I offer money back guarantee.

    BTW- your lingo sounds just like just a Dems talking point ....could do better, build back better. Totally lame. See what I did there.
     
  18. Gioan Baotixita

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    Be careful AWT when you’re calling out their golden calf Fauci. To the left, he is God and his words are like the gospel. Is it any wonder why liberalism is a mental disorder when they put their faith in the hands of a Keebler Elf?
     
  19. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    This thread is still so odd, even while I sympathize with any parent of small children in this awful pandemic.

    Does Fauci have any impact on masking policy in Germany? And please don't reference the nearly-fictional Daily Mail. Yikes.
     
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  20. Gioan Baotixita

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    ATW is moving his entire family to my state of Florida. FYI
     
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