[TheAthletic] Top 75 players in NBA history - Number 11: The Dream

That’s an embarrassingly bad ranking. Won’t bother reading it. If Dream isn’t in your top 10 then you’re simply pandering to bigger names that played in other markets and not making an objective list based on actual basketball careers.

There’s no ****ing way Kobe is better than Dream.
Wilt, Duncan, Bird and Magic aren’t either.
I’d put him ahead of Shaq but I’m not bothered if you flip them.

At the bare minimum he’s 6th but most of these ****s have no balls so I’d accept bare minimum as top 10 as long as you don’t try and tell me Kobe Bryant is better.

 

You can throw it out anyways.

 

I also think Duncan is in a mini class of his own.

It just surprises me that new people from the era of 3 point shots are turning a blind eye to the fact that Shaq was a horrible midrange shooter/FT shooter.

 

nvm

 

Had the league actually enforced the illegal defense rule when Hakeem was playing, he'd be ahead of Jordan.

 

They Athletic has him as #2 ever on defense right behind Bill Russell

 

Yeah, I struggle with that, too. Like from a sheer eye test and standpoint of who is more skilled with a basketball, no question it's Dream. While Shaq was remarkably skilled for a player of his size, Dream completely outclasses him as a shooter, ball handler, passer, footwork, etc. But a lot of times, the more skilled player isn't the most productive or efficient. Shaq was the closest thing to unstoppable since Jordan, even factoring in "hack a Shaq."

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer between the two of them and based on how you feel about the argument above, you can definitely make a strong case for Hakeem as the better basketball player. But I typically tend to value statistical dominance (regular season and playoffs) and era dominance more than general skillset and the eye test, so it's hard for me to rank Hakeem higher, even though I want to.

 

*drug*... imagine if the entire backcourt of the 80s Rockets didn't do cocaine and didn't get victimized by a sting operation... Dream could take down the Bad Boys Pistons...

 

I sometime wonder what a all-time big man ranking would b like to the media.

Such disrespect to the Dream

 

I do not have a problem with either of the bigs surpassing Hakeem (it is what it is)

They now have people like KB24, KD, Curry, Robertson jumping or on the verge of overtaking him.....smdh.

Who is next Giannis half Offense Freak?

At this point, they are really starting to diss a legend which is blasphemous.

 

#11 is highly disrespectful. I don't see current players going to Shaq or Duncan for pointers, drills, etc.

To me Dream is top 5

Mike - there's no one like Mike
Kareem - highly skilled, skyhook, awesome
Russell/Dream - Dream was better off/Russ def
Kobe - just below Mike
Magic - 6'9 PG that could do it all

 

I think CP3 is crazy underrated. So many people I know consider him a "star" but not a superstar level player. Easily one of the premier PG's of all time.

 

lol. I mentioned KD, Curry and Giannis in a post in a previous page. I think it's more than likely that at least one of those guys, if not more end up cracking that top 10 conversation in 10+ years and bumping Hakeem further down the list. Again, it'll be a subjective thing, but it's hard to argue with their statistical peak dominance. There are things working against them: Curry's poor defense and so-so postseason numbers, KD's team hopping and Giannis' single title run and poor postseason performance prior to last year. But there's probably going to be a pretty decent case to make, and recency bias will help them.

Gun to my head right now, I don't think those guys are there yet. But if they keep going, they might be. I know Giannis is genuinely hated in the GARM, but he has the chance to have a pretty special career if he keeps this up and add some more hardware to the trophy case.

 

The league is going soft, many players accounted for it.

So you are telling, just because you have better stats in a softer era without tough Centers you can do whatever you want?

That is why I had a hard time ranking Harden either, to me, he was doing work against Wesley Johnson type of defenders and not the Jordans or Gary Paytons of the league.

If you really experienced the 90s and heard of the 80s, there is nothing more menacing.

This love for all things stats related without putting a context to is, is really striking a nerve with me.....screw Morey and his followers.

 

Dude, there comes a time when you have to defend a monument, a treasure of the Houston city against all the national infidels.

There is nothing wrong where you stand but the time would be soon.

There is nothing much left in Houston if you cannot fight for Hakeem to stay in the Top 10 of All Time.

It further devalues your franchise, having a crappy owner is bad enough.

 

I think there's a natural preference for the era we most associate the sport with. If you grew up with and loved the 90s, you might prefer physical defense and bigs and post play. If that was before your time, you might have a preference for today's guard-centric play with floor spacing and 3-point shooting and versatile switch defenders.

Personally, I just try to acknowledge that every era was great and most all-time greats would succeed in any era. Is Curry soft, for example? For most eras, yes. But if you teleported him to the 90s and he was making 5 3s a night at a 40+% clip, teams would have no clue how to defend it. How many 6'10" guys in the 80s and 90s had the ball-handling skills of Giannis or Durant, Durant's shooting prowess or Giannis' playmaking? If Hakeem played today, his ability to switch on guards on the perimeter would make him a perennial DPOY candidate, and he's probably be working on his 3-point shooting in the gym until he could hit them at a decent clip.

And if you take stats off the table entirely, you can still look at dominance within their respective eras. Who was winning MVPs, Finals MVPs, rings, DPOYs and scoring titles? Who was leading his team to 60+ wins and the No. 1 seed every season? Who had big, memorable postseason performances? Even if you throw out the numbers, the guys with the same dominant stats tend to be the same guys rising to the top in terms of accolades. So, yes, while I personally do not like Durant, Curry or Giannis, those guys are making some strong cases to climb up the all-time list.

 

Please read my response below.

I think Hakeem represented most of the winning culture of the city, 90% IMHO.

If he falls out of the 15 which is possible in the future, you could bet that star FA are not even looking at Houston, or just as an offseason home.

This has already begun. It has gotten pretty serious. A franchise has to survive somehow.

Houston has no Lebron, Houston has no KD, Houston has no Curry, no Giannis, those are the recent poster bois of the league.

They neither got the No 1 pick and got Cade nor did they get Mobley a defensive swiss army knife.

 

As I said in a previous post, I have Hakeem somewhere around 7-9. I put him higher than Bird, Magic, Russell and Kobe. Who knows if he'll still be in my top 10 in a decade or not. Probably? But I'm not going to be so stuck in my ways or embedded in my opinions as to not keep an open mind about the sport I love. When you start to do mental gymnastics to defend a player you root for against all logic and against the same barometers you use to judge success in that sport, you're a pretty big homer at that point. That's just not the way I approach sports, or life in general.

 

lol. What? Dude, me having an open mind about Houston athletes and their standing in an all-time conversation in no way has an impact on where free agents are going to go in the future. That's a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

 

Spoiler

2021 NBA’s 75 Greatest Players
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Ray Allen
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Carmelo Anthony
Nate Archibald
Paul Arizin
Charles Barkley
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Dave Bing
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Wilt Chamberlain
Bob Cousy
Dave Cowens
Billy Cunningham
Stephen Curry
Anthony Davis
Dave DeBusschere
Clyde Drexler
Tim Duncan
Kevin Durant
Julius Erving
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
Kevin Garnett
George Gervin
Hal Greer
James Harden
John Havlicek
Elvin Hayes
Allen Iverson
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Sam Jones
Michael Jordan
Jason Kidd
Kawhi Leonard
Damian Lillard
Jerry Lucas
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Pete Maravich
Bob McAdoo
Kevin McHale
George Mikan
Reggie Miller
Earl Monroe
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Shaquille O’Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon
Robert Parish
Chris Paul
Gary Payton
Bob Pettit
Paul Pierce
Scottie Pippen
Willis Reed
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Dennis Rodman
Bill Russell
Dolph Schayes
Bill Sharman
John Stockton
Isiah Thomas
Nate Thurmond
Wes Unseld
Dwyane Wade
Bill Walton
Jerry West
Russell Westbrook
Lenny Wilkens
Dominique Wilkins
James Worthy

The Athletic’s 75
75. Lenny Wilkens
74. Robert Parish
73. Pete Maravich
72. Jerry Lucas
71. Alex English (not on NBA’s 75)
70. Hal Greer
69. Alonzo Mourning (not on NBA’s 75)
68. Damian Lillard
67. Nate Archibald
66. Billy Cunningham
65. Chris Webber (not on NBA’s 75)
64. Bill Walton
63. Carmelo Anthony
62. Dennis Rodman
61. Dolph Schayes
60. Wes Unseld
59. James Worthy
58. Earl Monroe
57. Dave Cowens
56. Dwight Howard (not on NBA’s 75)
55. Tracy McGrady (not on NBA’s 75)
54. Bob McAdoo
53. Anthony Davis
52. Ray Allen
51. Dominique Wilkins
50. Paul Pierce
49. Kevin McHale
48. Gary Payton
47. Reggie Miller
46. Russell Westbrook
45. Walt Frazier
44. Willis Reed
43. Clyde Drexler
42. George Gervin
41. Elvin Hayes
40. Allen Iverson
39. Bob Cousy
38. Steve Nash
37. Patrick Ewing
36. Jason Kidd
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. James Harden
32. Scottie Pippen
31. Bob Pettit
30. Chris Paul
29. John Havlicek
28. Dwyane Wade
27. Rick Barry
26. Isiah Thomas
25. John Stockton
24. Giannis Antetokounmpo
23. Elgin Baylor
22. Charles Barkley
21. Dirk Nowitzki
20. David Robinson
19. Julius Erving
18. Moses Malone
17. Kevin Garnett
16. Karl Malone
15. Stephen Curry
14. Jerry West
13. Kevin Durant
12. Oscar Robertson
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
9. Tim Duncan

So the final 8…
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Shaquille O’Neal
Bill Russell

NBA’s 75 that didn’t make The Athletic’s…
Paul Arizin
Dave Bing
Dave DeBusschere
Sam Jones
Bill Sharman
Nate Thurmond