No it's a function of who they play against and the amount of minutes they play. On a very **** team that the Rockets are (hopefully you aren't delusional enough to believe the Rockets wouldn't be **** if they never played Green), the more minutes you play the worse your +/- is going to be due to the cumulative effect. And then combine that with Green almost always playing against better competition as he's always against opposing team starting line ups while Sengun plays mostly against the bench line ups, that probably accounts for the vast majority of their +/- difference
Per is a crappy stat because it doesn’t account for defense, I use it to give Green a handicap, since any more advanced stat that measures impact on winning has Green at bottom of the entire nba. scoring efficiency is not one of the most important metrics, at all. Because not every player’s impact is on scoring. There are defenders, rebounders, playmakers, all not dependent on scoring efficiency. Giannis wasn’t asked to be a scorer as a rookie. Scoring is the ONLY thing Green can do, and he does it very, very poorly.
Scoring efficiency is literally one of the most important metrics for a NBa player and the fact that there is such a gulf of a difference between Green and Giannis their rookie years in that regard in the sense that he more than doubled his average while at the same efficiency rate should tell.you something. It should also tell you how vastly 19 year old rookies can improve. If we used your mindset evaluating Gainnisw' rookie year, you would believe the dude would absolutely never even touch top 10 in scoring ability on the league let alone top 3. And again, you ignore how per heavily disproportionately benefits big men because it weights rebounds disproportionately.
Oh. The Rockets would be quite a bit better if Green never played. There are a number of games they would have won if Green simply never checked in in the 4th quarter. He is a negative in any metric that contributes to winning, negative meaning he contributes to losing. Not that I’m advocating not playing him, winning doesn’t matter this year, but they should play him less, and off the bench, so that he embarrasses himself less and maintains trade value
What was your boyfriend Mobley's +/-? I'm sorry you don't understand basketball enough to realize the impact playing fewer minutes against backups may have on +/-.
-9 in a 11 point loss, how does this stand out? Green was +0 in a 11 point win while Sengun was +20. This isn’t that hard guys…
I want you tell you to look at their full season +/- but you might crap yourself if you saw it. And then when you adjust for teammates and opponents.. oh nvm you are too stupid to understand
Mobley looked good last night...in hindsight, KPJ and Mobley could have been a better combo than Green and and KPJ. In the near future, the Rockets will have to make a decision on who they want to build the team around...KPJ or Green. Rockets offense struggles when both are on the court at the same time.
I don’t agree with that. But on wider angle, I no longer think he believed Sengun jumped the wiper play.
Generally speaking you are right. They have had a hard time figuring out how to play with one another, but last night should give you some hope. Between the 2 they were 12/25 for 37 points - 6/12 from 3 - 7/11 FT - 6REB - 12AST - 2 TOs. Whats not to like?
I don’t have any stats to back it up, but it seems KPJ plays better with veterans like Wood, Tate, Matthew, Gordan than with youth. Maybe it is just that all youth and KPJ are going to have growing pains learning to play as a team. The more time the youth have playing together the better they will become. This is at least a two year re-build if not 3.
Chemistry and rapport come with time vets inherently will play better. It was cool to see Sengun thrown in with that group last night and how well Jalen and Alpi vibe. Thats what you wanted from this year. Go into next year with these guys already knowing where each guy's spot on the floor is, where they like to get the ball and how to play off one another. Short term thinking causes long term problems. Have the grit to see it through. Sure complain your hearts away when they play bad, but to dismiss the players NOW is just careless and egomaniacal. Gotta take the good with the bad, it does suck that there is more bad so far, but just have to have faith that high quality play will become more consistent, and when dealing with 19 year olds common sense should steer you in that direction.
Despite kinks here and there, KPJ and Green are looking better and better on the court together. God the team didn't have a decent grip on the game to start the season, it almost feels like things are stabilizing a bit more, fewer errors so they're beginning to figure each others' games out.
I think you're really misinterpreting what others are saying and this reaction in general. Most of the people here understand and accept that Jalen has been disappointing so far. Most people have a much lower opinion of him now than they did pre draft. Almost everyone who is talking to you understands that it's a long shot for him to ever become a superstar with the way he's played. Nobody is arguing with you here because they think Jalen has played great and is on the trajectory to superstardom. The reason everyone is jumping all over you is not because they're "delusional cultists", it's because you said 0.0%. That's literally the only reason. If you had just posted "Jalen Green has almost no chance of becoming a superstar, you'd have a better shot with lotto tickets" you wouldn't be getting nearly this same reaction. Like two people would have called you a hater and it would have been over. But you didn't just say that it was an absolute certainty, you also asked the board to post any other superstar who had numbers this bad. And then when people bring them up, you split hairs over whether or not a 10.8 PER is "close" to as bad as a 9.1 PER. You're splitting hairs on whether or not Dirk or Giannis rookie seasons are "as bad" as Green. Like there is some gulf of difference between the guy who has the 575th worst PER vs the 584th PER. Those guys had really REALLY bad rookie seasons and went on to be superstars. Yes it's unlikely, yes its an outlier, but that's what you're asking for when you make blanket statements like "0.0% chance". We get that the chances aren't high. The chances of superstardom are low for any draft pick no matter who you are, and when they play like Jalen has they get even lower. Just don't say 0% after half a season.
It wouldn't be a surprise given that Porter played with Wood, Tate, Gordon, etc last year so they're more familiar with each other's games vs 19 year old rookies who are still trying to their bearings right in the NBA.
PER was not the only stat I listed, it actually overrates Green because it doesn’t account for defense. Win share, bpm has Green far behind giannis and Dirk, not splitting hairs, it isn’t close. and again, I’m not spouting this off unprovoked, some dude was posting quotes from Shaq that says he will definitely be a superstar, I’m reacting to that. Like I said, low tier allstar based off fan popularity?, not likely but definitely still a chance. Superstar, no way in hell
Spoiler: CXbby's talent evaluation Yea. That's right. You better believe it. For the Rockets tonight, everything has changed. I would like to introduce you to the new face of the franchise: Marcus Morris. You should know plenty about him since I have been bombarding the BBS with info on him leading up to the draft. But since misinformation is still widely evident, I think some of the things bears repeating. After all, a proper introduction is warranted for someone you will be seeing a whole lot of in the coming years. As a power forward, Marcus Morris is undersized, has a short wingspan, with subpar athleticism, and can't block shots. While skilled, that is just enough to earn you the "versatile" tag. Which is just another way of saying, "We don't know where to put you." You add all that to an upperclassman who only came on the scene his junior year, and you have your recipe for why he was available at 14. Only problem is, he isn't a power forward. Playing at the prep charter Apex Academy, Marcus was almost exclusively used as a wing on the perimeter. Gifted with the ball handling of a guard, he was often called upon to bring the ball up like a PG. Only upon arriving at Kansas, and under the tutelage of Danny Manning did he start to develop in the post. After improvement each year, and biding his time behind a deep team with multiple NBA prospects, he finally molded himself into one of the most elite post scorers in the nation this past year. Unfortunately for him, that success has clearly made a few NBA teams forget where his roots lie. You see, as a small forward, Marcus Morris is massive, overpowering, and a complete bull. His underwhelming wingspan and shot blocking is less blatant when playing on the wing. Meanwhile, his post game is accentuated and could result in true mismatches all over the court. Most importantly of all, Marcus plays a triple threat game that only the stars in the league possess. One of the most efficient and productive scorers in college, he does so in the post, off the dribble, pull up, off screens and any and every way possible. His passing ability and court vision is extremely underrated, and will surely surprise a lot of folks. Meanwhile, his dribble drive is very effective due to his range out to the NBA 3, and his advanced ball handling. As a small forward, he is a top 5 talent in the entire draft. And one of the true impact players that a team can build around. As someone who has clamored to trade up to grab him, even if it cost one of our veterans like Scola, it is nothing short of stunning to have him drop into our laps. Today, 6/23/2011, the fate of the Rockets have changed. And I am not bull****ing you. This is a coup that makes up for the disaster that lost us Brandon Roy. In fact, that is exactly the caliber player we have just acquired. What I see in Marcus Morris is a similar career trajectory as Roy: a late bloomer in college, heralded for his all around game, yet master of none. Without elite athleticism or physical measurements, but dominant with skill. As a player, I see him as a heavier Paul Pierce with a much better post game. A less talented Carmelo with infinitely more toughness and commitment to team and winning. A healthier and more complete Caron Butler afforded with a great situation, a great coach staff, a great supporting cast, and every opportunity to succeed. I can go on and on. I can not adequately express my excitement as a Rockets fan. To me the biggest problem for our team was not a center. It was the lack of a franchise player to build around. Without one of those, there is no clear path to a championship caliber team. No starting point. I resigned to the conclusion that tanking was the only, and easiest way. I WAS WRONG. The reason I was wrong is because I significantly overestimated the competence of NBA GMs. The same group of aholes who let Paul Pierces and Danny Grangers slide time and again while reaching for the next big thing with a 40 inch vertical or 7'7 wingspan without a lick of basketball skill. Or hey, for someone who simply haven't even played in 2 years. Yup, not being able to see someone play actually BOOSTS their value. Nevermind that though, nothing can get me down for this glorious night. Mark my words: Marcus Morris will be in the running for Rookie of the Year. Marcus Morris will breakout his 3rd year in the league, averaging above 20 PPG. Marcus Morris will be a multi-allstar the next 10 years, bringing a championship to Houston. If you are a Rockets fan, rejoice. The light at the end of the tunnel is here. And it isn't a train. It's a pot of gold the size of Mount Rushmore. **** YEA. end of discussion.
