Whoopi Goldberg (Caryn Johnson) makes bad Holocaust statement, makes worse apology

So strange. I had no idea.

 

I totally agree with you when it comes to subjective content.

We have almost always erred on the side of free speech, but there have been real limits. You can't falsely yell fire in a theater and cause a panic (not protected speech - see Schenck v United States). Seems like the elements here are that it is false and it causes harm. I think we can see many examples of this in social media platforms today - false information causing harm (at a much greater scale than the falsely yelling fire example). Perhaps that case itself is enough and there are some laws already against such falsehood and harm, but it seems the gov could go a bit further to crack down on very crystal-clear cases. An example could be someone falsely telling voters to 'go vote at 2nd ave starting at 9am'. Or that mRNA vaccines have 5G tracker.

 

Funny how to conclude that when I started the post with "I have a different opinion"

 

Facts determine what is factually wrong - its really that simple.

COVID:
The possibility that the virus came from a lab was never disputed as a possibility - however unlikely it was and remains today. The facts still point against that and there is nothing but circumstantial evidence for it - which is far from fact.

The problem with the "Lab Leak Theory" isn't that it was a theory, it's that it often was supported by false information and outrageous claims. And the gov't never censored any of that.

And of course what people consistently fail to mention about the Trump Admin, is that they removed Obama's pause on gain of function research - which is ironic given that Trump then politicized the whole thing to be an anti-China stunt.

The most likely scenario still is a natural origin. That doesn't mean a lab leak for a future virus isn't possible - it is, and highly risky what's being done. But this particular virus is still very likely natural in origin based on the data and HARD EVIDENCE available. China is hindering the investigation because a natural origin is actually more damning of its government than a lab leak since it implicates its culture and farming practices. China doesn't want the truth out there because it wants to be able to blame the US to its people, saying it came from a US lab for instance. Ironic that each side uses mirror image propaganda.

For all the similaries people compare COVID-19 with viruses in Wuhan Labs, they find even more similar virus in nature. And that should be even more scarier to you.

EARTH ORBITS SUN:
You're wrong here too. The science had the sun at the center of our solar system before Christ both by a greek mathematician and an Indian one. Those were the facts. But people like Aristotle deemed it otherwise based on their philosophy and then religion which prevented the facts from coming out - even burning people at the stake for stating the truth. It was never "factually wrong" to say the Earth orbited the Sun, it was politically wrong because the Church considered it heresy.

Today a lot of people BELIEVE in the lab leak theory despite the facts not supporting it. So maybe the problem isn't with who determines the facts but the problem is actually paying attention to the established facts in the first place.

 

Very true. Free speech isn't an absolute. I still think we need to be careful about when government steps in to regulate truth. As you note we have a lot of problems with misinformation but a lot of that misinformation being propagated isn't deliberate or even malicious. A lot of it is due to ignorance or to mistakes because we are dealing with a lot of complex information that is changing constantly.

The argument about crying "FIRE" in a crowded theater has to do with that there is an immediacy that can be caused by misleading speech. There is a lot of speech out there that is misleading that doesn't cause such an immediate danger. For example believing that the Earth is flat is factually untrue and very misleading but outside of being a flight controller on orbital spacecraft there isn't much immediate danger to it. I don't think government there should be stepping in and preventing Flat Earthers from getting their message out or punishing them for it.

All of this applies to the government. For private entities I will repeat again they have the right to decide what speech is on their platform or how their property is used. I have the right to kick a Flat Earther out of my house for spouting nonsense. As someone who does have published music I have the right to pull that music from any platform I want for any reason I want short of contractual obligations.

 

And Spotify has the right to let a podcast on its network spread misinformation that may result in the death of people.

That said, those people's families' should then have a right to sue Spotify for negligence.

 

In the Spotify thread I said I agree with what they are doing. They are letting Rogan remain on, which is their right, but adding extra content to respond to what is on Rogan's podcasts. In other words countering speech with more free speech.

To emphasize again Rogan hasn't been removed so even taking the every expansive view of "censorship" he isn't being censored. ABC has the right to suspend Whoopi Goldberg but as we've seen she can go onto other platforms and say what she wants.

There is no censorship in either of these cases.

 

No but she is being reprimanded for saying something politically incorrect.

The right loves to talk about how its the left "censoring" their opinions. That cancel culture is the domain of the left.

But they ignore when they cheered on the cancelation of Bill Maher from ABC for saying politically incorrect things on his show politically incorrect, or colin kaepernick for kneeling, or that Senator Hatch once introduced a constitutional amendment to make flag burning illegal - and that would in fact be censorship.

 

I think you meant to reply to me. Exactly - anytime I want to give the gov more power, the first thought is "what could Trump do"?

Lab Leak was a theory. Popularity doesn't determine if it's true or not, but facts. And at the very start, it was known to be a possibility.

Sun orbiting the Earth was both popular and based on doctrine, not facts. It was already established that the Earth was not the center of the universe, but the Church censor and punish scientists.

There are facts. It doesn't matter who determines as much as that we must use facts. The question is then not who, but how do we make sure that the process is fact-based.

 

Indeed, not sure how I messed that up, edited for proper attribution.

Yes, every time people think about giving the government more power, they should always consider "What if the person I would least like to have it gets to wield that power". This is one of the reasons I am a libertarian.

The point is powerful entities that were either influencing the state or were the state themselves claimed that the facts were 1. No chance of lab leak origin and 2. sun orbits earth. It doesn't matter if other people had said something different earlier or used math to prove it, those ideas were suppressed because they were claimed to be "factually wrong" by entities with enough power to enact that suppression (social media companies and the church/state respectively). This is why we should not try to suppress misinformation, but instead provide what we believe to be correct information (along with the evidence/reasoning WHY it is the correct information). Your suggestion sounds good in theory, but once put into practice, there is no way to make sure the people actually doing the censorship are only censoring factually incorrect and harmful information or that they even realize what they are censoring doesn't meet those criteria.

 

i thought whoopi was a nun who can hear dead people. how is she jewish?

 

After what I just read whoopi and nun, I scrolled down the page and saw the ad Sister Act. Lol

 

I hardly come into the D&D but goodness gracious. This one left me pretty speechless.

 

Looks like this "controversy " is already dying down. I stopped watching The View and other left leaning programs during the 2016 presidential campaigns because they were over the top against Trump. Believe me I know I come off as a Trump supporter but i just expect professionalism regardless of the topic. Trump is personally very unlikable I understand, but stay classy even though he isn't

That being said the ladies on The View tend to dig in on their arguments and I think Whoopi did that here as it seemed she felt she was being misunderstood. I don't think anyone thinks she hates Jews and her suspension is ridiculous but who cares really.

I will say you have to respect The View for its longevity

 

We need to cancel ... The Unites States Federal Government.

When you take the census, these are your choices people:

 

You're right. At some point you think why am I watching people who don't know any more than me. Same reason I stopped listening to sports talk

 

fwiw, i am hard-pressed to say who knows more, you or Whoopi !