Whoopi Goldberg (Caryn Johnson) makes bad Holocaust statement, makes worse apology

What does her last name matter? Do all Jews have common Jewish last names? Who defines what a Jew is? Some Jews say it's an ethnicity and others say it is not, that it is a faith that one can convert to.

What does it matter if she practices? Would someone ask the same question of someone claiming they are Christian or Muslim?

She has said she considers herself Jewish, has been to Israel and is aware of and practices the holidays.

Why would I question the validity of ones claims when it comes to their faith?

Are those that convert to Judaism not Jewish?

FWIW I don't really have an issue with what Whoopi Goldberg said in this case, and her apology was prompt and exact and she spoke to a prominent Jewish authority prior to give an apology.

 

And why do you all of a sudden care? And why do you care about the ADL so much now and what they do?

You, the defender of Chappelle, Rogan, and many others now all of a sudden feel that Whoopi has run afoul and should be canceled?

Honest question - are you only anti-cancel culture when it matches your politics?

 

Lots of people are on TV. I don't care what most of them have to say.

I don't care what Joe Rogan has to say about anything. I enjoy listening to his guests, who are authorities in their fields, speak about things which they are authorities on.

If someone is presented or presents themselves with proper credentials to authoritatively speak on something, I listen and give it due to consideration.

What some random talking head bloviates onto the airwaves... I don't care. Neither should anyone else.

 

The holocaust, or more specifically, the use of the concentration camps to eliminate large numbers of people, was specifically designed to eliminate Jews. Other races and groups of people were killed as well, but the genesis of the idea came from trying to solve "the Jew problem." There was a meeting held, plans laid out, etc. It was entirely about killing Jews.

Whoopi is wrong when she says it wasn't about race, but that is also more about modern lack of understanding of history than her being offensive. She either sees Jews as white or the holocaust about religion, both of which are wrong/irrelevant in the context of 1930s-40s world history.

"White" means something different to her as a black woman in 2022 America than it did to a German Nazi in 1936. To her white is a skin color and the privilege that comes with it. A "Jew" can sit in a room with a bunch of "white" people and no one notice. However, in 1930s Germany, "Jew" was not "white." They were seen as an entirely different race. It was not about religion either because there was no concern given to whether you practiced or not. It was about the blood. Entire laws were written to measure how much of a Jew someone was based on their genealogy and determine whether they should be killed.

To me the weird part about her goof up was not that she was ignorant in saying it wasn't about race, but that she stuck to her guns after being educated by the other hosts on her show.

Racism is NOT only about white vs black or "people of color" as so many today see it. That's a very modern lens on a problem that existed since the beginning of civilization.

 

Is that why Jordan Peterson makes claims on mathematical climate models?

 

Concentration camps were also used to eliminate other groups such as Romani people. There was also a "Gypsy Problem" and some do include them in the Holocaust. This is why, to my understanding, some Jewish groups moved away from using the term Holocaust and instead began the usage of the word, "Shoah" to describe the Jewish Holocaust.

I've spoken to Jews who consider themselves a race, and others who consider themselves a religion. It isn't that insane for a black woman who considers herself a Jew to feel that Judaism is not about race given that would exclude her from it, is it?

To me, this all begins to feel about semantics more than anything else.

 

They wanted to build strip malls and Das Sternbocks off the ashes of St Petersberg and Moscow. Hitler and his ilk weren't shy about expressing admiration for the American Model (wrt First Nations) when discussing plans of steamrolling the slavs.

 

So you are saying that someone who states obvious lies and propaganda is ok so long as they have a degree in something related?

 

No, that's not what I said at all.

 

with respect, Lou . . . this phrase pretty much always signifies that whatever follows is nonsense and more likely than not mischaracterizes a point someone is trying to make.

maybe there's another way to pose the question?

 

Agree that concentration camps were designed to kill Jews in Europe, however almost half of those killed in concentration camps were not Jews. In 1940 the Germans were using mobile gas houses to eliminate Jews and Romas and other groups of people that were viewed as less than human. There can be meetings about killing the Jews (although the Wannsee meeting took place after the elimination of marginalized groups including Jews had already started).

It was about both. Those that converted to Judaism in Europe were sent to camps as well. However the primary concern was lineage.

Race is a social construction that is based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society. Judaism has created a culture that has evolved based on laws and rituals regarding diet, the Sabbath, and customs that can vary from place to place because the Jews live in many parts of the world.

Any person can convert to Judaism if they wish to do so.

Agree with this overall, but religion DID matter to the extent that those that converted to Judaism were murdered as well.

I would suspect it is because one can convert to Judaism. She likely did not see it in the larger historical context.

Agreed.

 

Initial comment is very ignorant, but how was the apology worse? Seems to me she said something stupid, she was told she put her foot in it, and then she apologized.

 

Not mischaracterizing at all.

He is saying that he enjoys listening to people with authority and gave an example of the guests on Joe Rogan, and we know that he is referring to guest like Dr Malone who have stated outright lies and provided misinformation that is harmful to people. His authority is established largely by his medical degree, is it not? Even if it's not, @HTM is clearly declaring that it is the "authority" that matters, not the factual truth of what is being stated.

To me, HTM is being very disingenuous in his argument. He isn't wrapping his rationalization to listen to misinformation in the blanket of "proper credentials". We both know it's not about proper credentials at all here, it's just that he agrees with the guest even though what they are saying isn't true by the standards of those who actually have authority on the matter.

 

This is what I said:

You're twisting and using it in bad faith, which is obnoxious.

IDK who Dr. Malone is. You, of course, go right off with some sort of controversial character.

Just because you have an M.D. certainly doesn't make you an authority regarding everything related to health and I wouldn't presume it does.

I was thinking of Neil Degrasse Tyson or the reporter who spent years chronicling the drug wars in Mexico.

I enjoy listening to them because they are authorities in their fields. What their opinions are outside their areas of expertise, I don't really care.

AFAIK Whoopi Goldberg has no area of expertise and I'm as interested in her opinion on anything as I am as the local Starbucks barista.

How do you arrive at the truth of what is being said? I find it best practices to listen to experts in their fields regarding topics. So do the courts, so do most people. Where else would you get information from? Cross check it with other experts if you wish, sometimes there are disagreements and form an opinion with the best and most comprehensive information available.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

People forget that the Nazis also were busy trying to exterminate gypsies, homosexuals, communists, Catholics, and the disabled as well. So the Nazi extermination programs were about race, but not only about race. They were about a psychotic belief that the way to a prosperous country is to paint certain groups as undesirables based on arbitrary characteristics and then try to eliminate them.

The whole episode with Whoopi is ridiculous cancel culture nonsense. No reasonable person would take what she was saying and think Whoopi is supportive of the Holocaust or thinks it is somehow not as bad as other bad things. She was making a distinction which she found meaningful to her, and a decent person would view it charitably with the intent it was uttered. It is unfortunate that everything now has to provoke outrage.

 

Whoopi, Joe Rogan, Trump and etc... All of these people are Entertainers and basically Shock Jocks... So people getting upset over what they say is crazy.....

Howard Stern was the best at this and I wouldn't be surprised if Trump learned from him... Stern would say some crazy off the wall stuff and then people would be talking about it.... So now more and more people are listening to him to see if he's going to say something crazy... Basically attracting ratings...

T_Man

 

I wouldn't have guessed that first paragraph would come from you. Not because I think you support Nazis. But because conservatives and right wingers in this county often mischaracterize the main intent and goals of the Nazi regime. Usually they say something along the lines about how Nazis wanted socialism and therefore... Holocaust.

But your first paragraph is spot on.

 

Most of the "outrage" is coming from those trying to troll outrage from the left... .Hence the troll who started this thread. Most objective people that actually listened to what she said probably just had the reaction that Ana Narraro or whatever her name is had in that snap reaction moment. Whoopi was trying to make a point about something along the lines of "evil people and hateful people will enact that hate to different groups... not just racially motivated hate crimes...." Or something like that. The attacks on LGBTQ people sort of proves her point a bit... but.....

On the Holocaust it was about Genocide of a race. Yes, gypsies, homosexuals, etc. were also put in camps but the "Final Solution" was 100% a political racially motivated campaign to tell the German people who backed Hitler that "The Jews are the Enemy and are Evil so They All must be Destroyed. We've tried to reason with the world, but we have no choice, bullsh$t bullsh$t bullsh$t."

So yes Whoopi was wrong because "The Final Solution" was 100% about the Jewish people. They were specifically blamed for WW1 in Germany by the Nazi propaganda machine & Hitler and the justification for killing them was that the Jews were essentially war criminals who stole from the German people. That's just historically a fact of what "The Final Solution" was, and Hitler said as much pretty blatantly in his speeches and writings.

Should Whoopi be "Cancelled"... no... I don't know anyone that would think that objectively despite what people like Tinman or his hero Bill Maher would lead you to believe about "The Left." Whoopi did provide us an opportunity to remind people about the history of WW2, and remind people how quickly a autocratic leader can brainwash people into supporting something so cruel and evil. Here in the US the right certainly has it's hands dirty with the racial blame game fueling it's campaigns.

So it's a good time to remind people about "The Final Solution" and how it started in Beir halls with a bunch of white working class people looking for someone to blame for them losing their jobs, standard of living, or culture, and there enters Adolf Hitler in the door yelling about how the Jews are to blame. That message still is very effective in todays ever-changing society, and there are those who will go to great lengths using the power they get using that same message today.