it actually wasn't. the only people that thought it was the worst in the NBA were folks that didn't know any better. And we see how things like that play out time and time again. Especially around here. I'll continue to laugh anytime It doesn't matter if Book is the only person on the team still from 2017. The point was the suns didn't make the playoffs for a decade before last year and were irrelevant throughout that time The rockets are easily years and years away from sniffing the playoffs let alone being a real contender. and no the rockets are not going to be in the playoffs in a span of just 3 years when they're the worst team in the league still looking for that 1 player to build around
From 16 wins to 20 wins….my apologies for the sarcasm but I’m extremely competitive and I don’t like putting my trust in Tilman for a successful 3-5 year rebuild. I’ve seen it go horribly wrong with other teams and picking Silas and this cheap Charmin soft staff (minus Lucas) was a bad start. Also, prioritizing KPJ as the next Harden was a bad move. Never give the keys to the franchise to a mentally disturbed, violent, immature kid who parties extremely hard and doesn’t put time into developing his game. Doesn’t take a genius to see that he is not the type of character you do that with. We’ll probably take someone like Ivey in the draft to replace him and it’s one step up two steps back as Ivey is Josh Christopher but a year younger (and less developed). Honestly don’t think ownership is truly committed to a winning plan for this team.
It has nothing to do with smiles. Tell me who you want to replace Silas with and I will tell you if Tilman is willing to pay that coaches salary request. You: coach X Apache: if that coach wants more than $2.3 million per year, Nooooooooooo So put on your Big Boy pants and tough out a team just had their mega star force a trade rebuild with the rest of us!!!! Spurs had their mega star force a trade a couple years prior to us and they aren't exactly tearing the NBA on fire a going for deep playoff runs. And I'm told they have the greatest coach ever created.
I think KPJ, Tate, and Martin have all regressed on offense, but in the case of KPJ and Martin they are much better on defense. Tate is about the same on defense, but teams have learned how to take advantage of his height. Wood is the same as always and is the biggest problem holding back this team from progressing defensively. We are still going to suck for this year and next, but we will see defensive improvement almost immediately after Wood is traded. I also think Silas lack of structure hurts the development of young players.
I agree that Silas is not the man for this job. Personally, I think that finding a new coach is the looming decision for this franchise. The Silas hire was weird at the time and looks even worse now. Seems like a great guy and I think he has some traits that I hope the new guy will have too but he just isnt meant for a young team in my opinion. As for Tilman, we dont really have any choice. I dont like him either but he seems determined to keep the team and all we can hope is he and his kids stay out of the way and let the grownups run the organization. There appear to be signs that is happening so while I get the hesitation, we might be ok.
We need a top 3 pick to get a big if we can’t get one via trade. Getting to the play-in this year or even next is counter productive. We need to be hoarding talent, figure out who is in the core, and bundle middle of the road guys and draft picks for all-star(s). Wood and Gordan should definitely be traded for picks and expirings unless you can get a promising big like Patrick Williams or Myles Turner. Getting a Myles Turner would probably gain us about 7 more victories than without him and may screw us out of top 3, but a player like him would be worth it.
Did you think this was an easy or quick fix? Just look at the history of rebuilds has any team been competitive within 5 years after trading away their franchise guy? Or starting an actual rebuild? I hate Tillman for what he did as well but if you are frustrated now god help you, it will probably get worst before it gets better.
This true but you are ignoring the fact that the Suns were booty years before they got Booker and just started to win in his 5th year so that's not far from 10 years and thats best case scenario. Let's look at the Orlando's, Sacremento's New Orlean's and Detroit's of the world and Even Chicago, that 10 years is much more realistic than 3 years and this is the 2nd time the Sun's are rebuilding in the last 20 years. It takes luck and skill and very few teams get both.
I like Myles Turner. Exactly what I like for Center. Mitchell Robinson as well. Not too big and slow that it brings down our pace, while (key word) also being able to guard 1-5. Means interior defense and perimeter defense. I've been here for years promoting the Warriors model of a bunch of 6'7" to 6'9" mobile players with a big player like Bogut, JaVale MeGee type to play vs the big centers like Embiid, KAT, Jokic defensively. Turner and Mitchell give me that plus an ability to shoot 3's. Where Tilman/Patrick/Stone have failed me is the lack of 6'8" mobile players. When teams draw out Wood, Theis or Sengun away from the basket on switches; the lack of 6'8" players to guard the rim are not there. Rockets are relying on guards. Lay up drills happen. Playing position less basketball with a bunch of 6'5" or 6'3" guards is problematic to our interior defense. ------------------------------ and I'm a believer that the dreaded 8th seed territory only is to be feared by veteran teams that aren't maturing or improving their games. The Rockets are a bunch of kids that will mature and grow their games through experience. Players like Jalen Green, Sengun, Josh Christopher, Tate, Kenyon, Garuba are seeing teams for the first time. Learning their plays, what and where their key players want the ball, dribble left or right. It's all new to most of them. All the NBA players are different. Dame doesn't like the same shot as Jayson Tatum, as Beal, as Booker, as Durant, as Harden, as LeBron, as KAT, as Hardaway Jr, as RJ Barrett, as Van Vleet, as LeVert. Every game has different challenges within itself. The proverbial Forest Gump box of chocolates. The more our young players see the different teams and their players the better. Especially under stress as in the playoffs. Yes, these players or kids know each other from AAU and highschool games plus basketball clinics.....but they don't know the pros and their go-to moves. They have to learn all that to be successful. Tate has been in the league two years and opponents still don't realize that he is left handed.
The Rockets can go 1 of two ways in my mind: Optimistically, they get their franchise players from their top picks in the 2021 draft (Green/Sengun) and the 2022 draft (TBD). The team fills in around those guys (players like KPJ/Tate/Martin/Christopher/Garuba/Mathews/Brooks/Mia 2022 first), trimming the fat where necessary until the summer of 2023 when they make a splash signing/trading for a developed star to add to the team which pushes them into contender status. The pessimistic version of the story goes the Rockets strike out with Green/Sengun/2022 lottery pick and just select guys who are legit NBA players. The team is stagnant and in the summer of 2023 it has to pay a premium price for a marginal free agent as there is no buzz about the team and no assets of value to swing a deal. And their picks start conveying to OKC. M-I-S-E-R-Y. I just feel like the first scenario seems totally doable and that the front office, if Tilman stays out of the way, has the brains to pull it off. But I recognize that things can go the other way (or splitting the difference just make it to where the Spurs or Mavs are being just a decent team).
Very good post. I think we are pretty much in agreement. If we can get a Turner now, I would do it even though it would probably screw our chances at top 3 this upcoming draft. We would also need to extend him as quickly as we can. If we can’t get a Myles Turner then we need to continue to just play out this season with our youngsters and we will lose, but not on purpose. Get what you can for Wood. He can’t play defense or set a pick and I see no evidence that this will ever change.
It's not likely that the Rockets make the playoffs in 3 years but it isn't some crazy expectation. Memphis and Phoenix were the bottom 2 in 18 and both made the playoffs last year. Phoenix and the Knicks were the bottom 2 in 19 and both made the playoffs last year. The Warriors (special circumstance) and Cavs were the bottom 2 in 20 and might both get in this year. The Rockets being a playoff team by 2024 is very possible even if it isn't likely.
Can you name a team that has threaded the needle to do what your best scenario is? What about this front office has convinced you of anything? The jury is still out on Green, Sengun and Christopher fell in their lap after, they were extremely lucky to get Sengun. What makes you excited about this front office? Was it trading for Oladipo and then getting nothing in return for him?
all this best case scenario stuff isn't going to happen. It's way more likely not to happen than it is to happen. You're not going from the worst team in the league to the playoffs in a span of 3 years when you're building from scratch. seems some of yall still can't understand that. yall will still be the same ones complaining and wondering what's going on, when you were literally told this is process of completely tearing down a team and then trying to build it again
NBA is entirely a lottery, there's no guarantee of any time line. If you can luck out with a Luka or Giannis in the draft, your rebuild is essentially over. Now that could be next year, that could be 10 years from now. Getting high draft picks merely increase your odds, it's by no means guarantee either, let's not the Suns drafting players like Dragan Bender, or Memphis drafting Thabeet. I maintain that coaching, culture and all that junk doesn't matter when you can just draft 2 all star level players. A literal monkey can coach a Giannis or Harden led team to the playoffs. With the way free agency goes, unless you already have a super star or if you are NY, LA, Miami, good luck building a championship team.
Which of those teams traded their Franchise guy and started a rebuild in the 3 previous years. You are glossing over the fact that those teams were booty much longer than the 3 previous years. The role model in all of this is Memphis, but we have not drafted a Morant yet and don't have a great coach, and none of those 2 things are easy to get. Yes its possible we can be a playoff team in 2024 even easily doable but it that the goal to just be a playoff team? Do we want to become Orlando or Washington who were always possible playoff teams?
I would trade Indiana Wood and 2 1sts for Turner without hesitation. Hell, throw them Wood, KJ, and 2 1sts if necessary. Wood fits in better with Sabonis anyways considering Christian loves to hoist perimeter shots. Turner can be our defensive anchor down in the paint and fits in nicely with a willing passer in the front court (Sengun). A front court of Turner, Sengun and Tate would be very interesting.
Wait, so the Mav's rebuild is over? Is that what we want, to have a guy who scores a lot but get beat in the 1st round every year? I don't agree that coaching and culture doesn't matter just look at Milwaukee and Memphis coaching and culture changed the trajectory of those teams
On the Silas salary, this was something I was interested in. I don't think it's officially published and there was some convo on this few months ago. I originally thought Silas was a bargain coach, that maybe Tilman got him on the cheap; since he was going to be a rookie head coach. I don't think that's the case. Some of the Rockets beat writers (Kris Gardner) estimate it to be something like a ~$20 mil - 5 year deal. MDA was a $5 mil / yr, coach, it's estimated that Silas is around $4-5 mil range. So not that significantly cheaper. Also if Silas is fired in his 2nd year (for performance, and not for cause), then Tilman will have to eat the rest of the salary. This reason alone will make it unlikely for Silas to get fired. I know some folks here are vocal about wanting Silas gone, but unless, we go on another historical losing streak or some big even happens, I don't see his job in jeopardy. On a related note, if we look at head coaches and how long they been with their current team. Silas' 2020 tenure is nearly the same as half of the coaches in the NBA. 17 out of the 30 NBA teams Spoiler J.B. Bickerstaff, Cavaliers: February 2020 Tom Thibodeau, Knicks: July 2020 Steve Nash, Nets: September 3, 2020 Billy Donovan, Bulls: September 22, 2020 Doc Rivers, Sixers: October 3, 2020 Tyronn Lue, Clippers: October 20, 2020 Stephen Silas, Rockets: October 30, 2020 Mark Daigneault, Thunder: November 2020 Chris Finch, Timberwolves: February 2021 Nate McMillan, Hawks: March 2021 Note: McMillan was an interim head coach until being named the permanent coach on July 8, 2021. Rick Carlisle, Pacers: June 24, 2021 Chauncey Billups, Trail Blazers: June 27, 2021 Ime Udoka, Celtics: June 28, 2021 Jason Kidd, Mavericks: June 28, 2021 Jamahl Mosley, Magic: July 11, 2021 Wes Unseld Jr., Wizards: July 17, 2021 Willie Green, Pelicans: July 22, 2021
