I just don't really agree that any of this is relevant. Just a difference of opinion, you clearly disagree, which is fine. To me the bottom line is they had X years in the lottery and X years of sucking before they were good. It's not about where you want to draw the line for "this is where I think the rebuild started", but rather, how many years they have playing bad enough to land at the top of the draft lottery. They had back to back lottery picks, both of them contributors, and they hit big on a late pick in the following year. That's 3 consecutive successful years in the draft to get the guys who are contributing the most to wins and playing the most minutes. After they got the first guy, they still sucked (we are here). Then the next year they got the second guy, and then they were still not very good, they made the play in but were well below 500. Then the third year they got the third guy, a huge hit on a late round draft pick, and then they were a bit above 500 and made the playoffs. This year, those 3 guys are their top 3 contributors (or 3 of their top 4, depending on how good you think Steven Adams is).
I think the Griz scenario is one of the more "best cases" for rebuilding. The Rockets are intentionally sitting $44 million in salary, I think the Rockets' default goal is to be a bottom team unless there's a trade to be had. Is Green disappointing compared to Mobley and Barnes? Yes, but that's just how things happen in the NBA. We also looked to have gotten steals in Sengun and JC while Garuba is a TBD late FRP. I think the Rocket's will most likely be a bottom 10 next season as well unless we pull off a trade for someone like Jaylen Brown.
Drafts caused these teams success. Who else was on the Warriors team that won 73 games? Outside of Iggy was there maybe some other players they drafted that turned out alright? The Heat drafted Dwayne Wade and it turned their entire trajectory around. Lakers got Kobe as a rookie because he didn't want to be a Hornet. *Someone* is being disingenuous. Also ignored the Mavs drafting Dirk and the Spurs drafting Duncan.
How many of those drafted players did the Warriors tank for? Look it up, it was none. And sure the Spurs drafted Duncan, did they tank for Manu and Parker? The only point I've ever made is that tanking does not lead to winning the league. To suggest I've been advocating anything else is you being VERY disingenuous. Nice try though
I find it really refreshing that Green is just working in the weight room, slowly learning off ball defense and offense, improving at getting to the line and NOT complaining about touches/usage even though yes on the average tanking team he would normally get more touches. Lots of guys would be whining and sulking by now already and already impatient about acting like Michael Jordan. They told him to work on his fundamentals and he's just doing it. It seems like reports of his high moror and work ethic are true. This to go with the short flashes of magic we've seen from him heating up or crossing people over with ease. These are rare traits for a lotto pick that remind me of some NBA greats. Kobe, MJ, Lebron are some of the best players that I know to have these traits, hopefully it means something about Green's game continuously expanding in the future.
Nice try semantics guy. We are rebuilding by accumulating high draft picks, just like most teams do in our situation.
Not that I’ve read yalls conversation, but i think there’s a fine point here . once again , this year , we are bottom 3 bad . there’s a difference between focusing on young guys and letting the chips fall and purposefully trying to be bottom 3 bad . Imo this year we are bad , but also making decisions that lead to even more losses ... Rotations and wall . I will be mad if we do that again next year after having 2 horrible seasons in front of it . I’d rather pick 7 and win 5-10 more games than pick 3 . you have to build a winning mentality and culture . And that starts with at least trying to win .
Stone will pick up Paolo or Jabari this year and then suck it one more year for Victor Wembanyama!!! Stone you magnificent b*stard!!
If by next year we no longer have Gordon/Wood and replace them with picks or young guys with upside are you expecting us to win more games?
maybe . Depends on who and how they fit . I already don’t think wood contributes much to winning . I think a better PF could help sengun and Tate become an all-around better frontcourt. with Gordon .. no . But we already have guys in KPJ , green , and Christopher who can / should improve to pick up the slack there . Frankly Tate can get more ball handling duties too . and it’s waaaaay more palatable if we are losing and young guys are getting more minutes . and if we trade wood / Gordon and get a top 2-3 pick this year ... then yes I expect the balance going into next year is we have more “talent” on the team . Whether that leads to wins depends on coaching
I don't think it's out of the question. It would take a lot to go right but hypothetically if we get a lotto pick who comes into the league as a positive player, lets say we get lucky and that guy is an immediate contributor and defensive presence, the way Mobley or Barnes have been this year. We put that guy next to Sengun/Green in year two, and both of them have some incremental improvement, I could definitely see that team winning 30ish games. We could just as easily win less than 20 games, I don't know, there are a lot of possibilities, but I don't think being better next year would be totally unexpected.
Players’ talent, skill, experience matter of course, but how they play as a team is more important. This team now is a mess, it plays way worse than the talent/skill level of the roster would indicate. completely disorganized and listless. For example, last year OKC Thunder, after they shut down Horford and SGA, was basically a G-league level roster, but they played better than what we’re seeing from the Rockets now…
We were predicted to be a bottom 3 team by Vegas before we even knew about Wall or "saw the rotations". I don't think the Rockets are "pulling their punches" like some think. We literally traded Harden less than a full calendar year ago, I think "winning mentality and culture" is extremely overrated in the context of it being 1/10/22 or even the remainder of this season. We aren't done transitioning from the Harden era to the rebuild era.
Did they? OKC literally decided to stop playing anyone with talent and decided to tank for the last quarter of last season.
OKC literally had 3 former MVPs and a couple of good players from the Draft but would not recommend it for other franchises. It is impossible to replicate that in the foreseeable future.
We are talking about last years OKC team, and it would appear OKC is employing a similar strategy to how they acquired 3 MVPs. I doubt they expect to get another 3 MVPs but what other way do they have to rebuild?
yes, I remember this game, when they beat us: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202103210HOU.html Look at that roster, that’s not an NBA roster; average age was lower than some teams in the NCAA tournament. But they played hard basketball, fundamentally sound and they played together. I remember that game very well. The disgrace that we are witnessing now cannot be solely attributed to lack of skill and talent.
So they tanked with class? They sat anyone with talent and they played a bunch of hungry, young no bodies and they lost tons of games with class? They played like we played during a winning streak? The fact we are playing exactly how the betting community thought we’d be playing goes against your notion. So you wouldn’t mind losing if it was done in a more visual pleasing way? Or would you come up with another excuse?
