Yes but claiming that Teachers truly have 13 free weeks of vacation speaks to your knowledge of what teachers truly have off. You should just drop that line please. Maybe there are some that only are doing any work in the hours that school is in session but in my experience that is not normal. School not being in season does not = not working. To your point about limits… No I don’t think teachers should get paid like corporate sales reps with huge quotas and commissions…BUT… I do think the state of Texas has really screwed the profession by gutting the TRS benefits that Texas teachers used to get but they don’t anymore. Health insurance was gutted as soon as Abbott came into office and nominated his friends to the board. Texas teachers have zero incentives to stay in or excel at the job beyond just staying employed or staying out of the news. Texas has an abusive relationship with our education system. We can argue about compensation all we want but the issue at hand isn’t really about that… it’s about overall respect for the institution. If folks on the right had that, maybe we could at least keep Texas teachers in the job and have some incentive to stay 30 years in the profession instead of burning out and not giving a crap about your kid who might or might not be recording me on tik tok to humiliate me and get me fired just because I’m mad that I’m not cast as Curly in Oklahoma.
I’m no more threatened by you than Biden was by Trump when the former told the latter to “shut up” during a debate. And telling you to go away is not fascist. My ire towards you is the bad faith stupidity you’ve recently been injecting into multiple threads, where you outright admit you don’t know what you’re talking about yet junk up this board with your poorly informed opinions. You ask for civility but ignore the primary custom for any debate - know the facts. So don’t ask for courtesy when you disrespect everyone here with your disinformation. now - here’s some actual information regarding how many hours a teacher typically works per day. https://www.scholastic.com/teachers/articles/teaching-content/teachers-work-nearly-11-hour-days/ Also keep in mind that unlike a lot of other jobs where much time is killed in non-work activities (bathroom breaks, long lunches, coffee and water cooler chats), most teachers are not allowed such diversions. Even the laziest of teachers have to spend their entire day keeping an eye on students, which is fatiguing work in and of itself.
Yes, those are the legally mandated salary minimums in the state of Texas. You have presented no evidence that's actually what any teacher earns. If you look around the Houston area, I've looked at 5 school districts now, they all have basically the same salary schedule with new teachers earning close to $60k. $60k also turns out to be the state average. https://blog.ecapteach.com/how-much-is-the-average-teaching-salary-in-texas This is a forum about the Houston Rockets dude, it's not some random place. A healthy percentage of people are from Houston. I used Houston area salaries just as an example. They are in no way cherry picked. They are just average salaries. This isn't some teacher salary utopia or something.
Oh snap, "some actual information" - lets take a closer look at where that "actual information" comes from. Wanna find some figures that aren't merely derived from teacher self-reporting there buddy?
Do teachers not have 8-9 weeks off in summer, a week for thanksgiving, 2-3 weeks for Christmas and spring break? Is that not factually correct? Even if you start cutting a few days off here and there. That's still 10+ weeks of vacation which is beyond the scope of what most salaried Americans are getting. Some companies have better benefits then other but even still, it's a tremendous amount of time off. I don't lack respect for the institution. I haven't "disrespected" teachers. Merely having the opinion that 13 weeks off is a awesome (most teachers I imagine think so to) and $60-80k a year (look at Houston area pay schedules) is appropriate isn't "disrespectful." I don't agree with the narrative I consistently see framed around teaching. That's a perfectly reasonable and fine opinion to maintain.
If you made $36k per year, 6 dollars per hour would mean you worked 16.43 hours per day every single day of the year.
Yeah, I am also curious on the $6/hr math. Based on 40 hours per week, 52 weeks a year, that comes out to a $12k+ salary. Even if we assume they work 80 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, no over time rate, that's $24k+ salary. Number seems off, but hell, maybe his friends work in one of the lower paid districts in the state. I definitely think teachers work hard. I have several friends and family that are teachers and they put in a fairly good amount of hours. Unfortunately, being a teacher means you chose a profession that you will never be compensated fairly for the job you do, which is why so many bright individuals choose to pursue a different career path that will net more pay. Unfortunately that seems to come with the territory of being involved in a job that is mostly funded through taxpayer money (assuming most aren't teaching in private institutions). This is anecdotal on my part, but many of the individuals I know that became teachers are mostly peers that weren't overachievers and quite frankly I am surprised they even made it through college since I saw them struggle through high school (or didn't take any of the challenging courses). Also, I remember some of the teachers at my school were really really really bad as well. I did go to a lower income school in HISD, so I am sure that has something to do with it. I see the complaints on Facebook all the time from my teacher friends. I definitely see the overachievers in my high school class that chose to become educators do put long ass hours to ensure they are preparing their students accordingly. I remember one of my friends would go to conferences during the summer, start lesson planning well in advance prior to the start of the school year, and also be involved with extra curricular clubs. She would also take on being the chair of her department for a few measly extra $2-$3k. My brother in law is a teacher, is the soccer coach, also the cross country coach, and also runs the national honor society. He also does pretty damn well lesson planning and grading (he is head of his department and teaches a couple of AP science courses), but doubt he is putting 80 hours a week, however he is putting a lot more than 40 hours a week, no doubt. He does work in a lower income school though, so maybe he doesn't have to deal with involved parents and answering emails at night like others do. I am sure the professions hours vary from district to district.
No that is not accurate unless they literally do nothing after the bell rings. My wife was working all throughout the holiday break. Multiple trips to school too, and meetings with her principle. Coaches work through holidays and parts of the summer as well. There are very very few teachers who do not do extra curricular activities that are still active when school is on break. So no… not accurate whatsoever, and you sound like you don’t know any Texas teachers. I do agree that the 60-80k range would be appropriate if the Texas Republicans wouldn’t have stripped their benefits and excellent retirement plan so there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Also stipends need to be increased and more admin positions need to be added to chaperone children so coaches and fine arts teachers aren’t solely responsible for literally 80 kids per teacher in 10,000 square foot areas. Also more teachers with smaller class sizes etc etc. Like… nobody is asking for drastically more pay, but they are asking for those things and every years Gregg Abbott’s appointed board votes to screw over Texas teachers more and more. I don’t think you have I’ll intentions here, but your take does come off as quite ignorant. I don’t want to offend you but it is what it is. Don’t believe me, go look up what the TRS used to provide vs what it is now after Gregg Abbott came into office and appointed his people.
So I'll correct here that the math was done years ago when I was living with my two best friends who were new football coaches up here in DFW. At the time their salary was probably in the low 40's, and this was at a time where they were coaching not just football, but basketball, and track. Football season is insane. They would be leaving the house around 6AM, and get home around 10 or 11. Only off on Sundays. Basketball and track were better but not much more. But yes, we did the math and it sucked. It was around 6 or 7 bucks an hour. Feel free to do the math for me again and tell me if you think getting paid 45K a year for those kind of hours is worth it. I'll also say that I wouldn't use HISD as the barometer for teacher pay. Many Texas teachers work in suburban schools, and like my wife started working 15 years ago when the pay was in the low 40's, and after 15 years she is still only in the mid 50's. That's also someone who is a fine arts director, and has 4 State UIL trophies. Winning state once at 5A is a big deal. Winning it 4 times is unheard of. I know teachers in Friendswood ISD too that started around 15 years ago too where because FISD was so sough after they were only offer teachers 35K at the time. So it's likely they are still only in the 45K range. The new teachers coming in fresh out of college are likely making much more because of the screwed up way that pay is contracted, and how the teachers union really sucks at negotiating with the state. HISD, and DISD are two districts that are likely outliers in pay for good reasons. I have friends that teach at Dallas Skyline which is similar to most HISD schools from what I know, and it's not unheard of for there to be 40 kids per class, with kids who come from some of the worst backgrounds. These teachers are saints because they have to truly love these kids in order to do what they do. With these kids it's often likely that this teacher is the closest thing in their life to a parental figure, and that teacher in the end is only getting paid to teach long division.
I'm basing this math on the assumption that these guys were working the 180 days plus 26 Saturdays 17 hours a day (not assuming any breaks) and that works out to $11.40 an hour. Granted, that's no good, but not as low as $6/hr. We are also speaking in today's dollars, not sure when these guys were making the salary, but regardless, I agree, pay is low. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to these kind of schedules, likely passion for the sport and profession, but if I were in their shoes, I definitely would not have taken on the football coaching gig if it's causing me to work an extra 1200 hours a week (once again, assumption of 180 days + 26 Saturdays, making a general assumption that 6 hours a day are strictly for football) if I am only compensated an extra $5-6k. Overall, I understand differences in district salaries, I only used HISD since the majority of my friends work in HISD. I certainly am well aware that there are districts in the state that pay lower. I don't pretend that a ton of teachers do put a **** ton of time into their work. At least from my group of friends, that majority of them do have a planning period in the school day, which many use for grading and doing some lesson planning, although at the end of the day, they still take some work home. By the way, the whole 180 day deal, I am just using as a general standard, I don't want you to think I am neglecting to understand that your buddies worked outside of that scheduled time during professional development days or prior to the school year or after the school year to get their **** together.
45k at 6 dollars per hour means working 20.54 hours per day every single day of the year. That means they had 3.46 hours per day to eat, sleep, shower, shave, use the restroom, and travel to and from work. It also assumes they never did a single thing beyond that. Even at 7 dollars per hour, that would be 17.61 hours per day, every single day of the year. If you took Sundays off, as indicated, 7 dollars per hour would mean 20.54 hour workdays 6 days per week. 6 dollars per hour would mean 23.97 hour workdays 6 days per week (but oh those sweet 108 seconds off of work each day).
Trust me... I've had that conversation with my wife, and friends many times. I could never do what they do, and subject myself to that type of personal risk too of being hung out to dry when a kid and their parents involve you in a scandal of their own making, and everyone hangs you out to dry because the teachers are ALWAYS the fall guy. But in the end, they stay because they truly care about the kids. Even after kids have tried to get my wife fired because she didn't cast them in the roles they wanted, she still cares about them and even will cast them in future shows if they are right for the role. These are the things that they deal with daily that the people talking about their time off in the Summer don't really think about. And if I can leave with one ask to have people generally advocate for when they talk to a Texas candidate for office or make a decision about who to vote for governor, etc. it would be to ask of Texas elected officials to bring back the previous TRS benefits that were gutted years ago. It would keep career teachers from leaving to go to corporate America when they get close to being fully vested around the 15 year mark. That's sort of the lynch pin IMO and would really help our Texas schools have higher quality experienced teachers. Also adding more admin positions to take away some of the burden of... well... babysitting kids rather than actually teaching. People get hung up on pay, and hours when really Texas teachers aren't really asking for that much that would make a huge difference.
Are you also counting the days they work in the Summer? Coaches often are back at least a full month before school even starts. The hours they would put in even in July were crazy. You are trying to catch points here in an argument but by doing so you kind of look more and more like an ass. You are trying to play gotcha to prove a point that somehow teachers are actually whiny brats who gets paid to take long vacations when really your point MIGHT show that they actually make 10 dollars an hour instead of 6 or 7. Yes... you are an ass.
I'm a pretty smart guy and I have always had issues with punctuation those sentence fragments lessons where killer to me. I would never try and teach english but not much is actually written these days so you can get things to autocorrect.
Don't really understand what that has to do with teaching and teachers salary most white collar jobs that require you to work those type of hours are 6 figure ++ only a small amount of teachers crack 6 figures nationally.
I'm counting working 365 days per year. That would be during the summer too, yes. Also winter, spring, and fall. I didn't mention vacations at all, in fact I specifically included no vacation days. It isn't my fault you suck at math and are making **** up about teachers getting paid six dollars per hour.
I'd be interested to see actual data on what percentage of teachers are coaches. Obviously, no elementary, middle school has fewer sports... what percentage of HS teachers are coaches? This is almost always the very first thing brought up and it's always the extreme of the football coach who is notorious for putting in insane hours, usually for extremely little pay at all levels of the football pyramid up to and including the NFL. Football coaches make up what percentage of teachers? You happened to live with two. The other 100 teachers and administrators at the school aren't football coaches. I don't mind teachers getting better pay or benefits. The problem is the American tax payer is not under-funding education. That's a myth. We spend on average per pupil more then almost anyone in the world. We are almost always in the top 5 per spending per pupil in the world. Up there with places like Luxembourg. It's about how our resources are distributed. The money is there it's just not getting to the right places.
I posted earlier that Conroe ISD does in fact start at $58k for a new teacher. Definitely not bad especially for those straight out of college. But what you're neglecting to see is that it would take that teacher 25 years to get to $67k. Would you stay in a corporate job for 25 years to only be making $10k more than when you started?
It's amazing the level of stupidity that is in this post you don't seem to have any idea of what a teachers work day actually is. Yeah most are starting at 60k in Klein and Cy-Fair but what are they making 10 years in? And what about the teachers who are not working in Klein or Cy fair you know the majority of school districts in the state?
