I would gladly place Sabonis and Sengün over Simmons although Simmons has a bigger body of work than Alperen.
This. Wall's albatross contract is big hindrance to "compete now and compete forever". Another reason the stars lineup for a proper rebuild.
Simmons would be the #1 pick in this upcoming draft, not even close. But I think our conversation about Mobley vs Green shows you don't value defense as much as it should be valued. Kawhi was drafted like 15th...also, I said TANKING relies on luck, not the draft. There is skill in drafting, that's why scouts get paid after all. It is completely luck because they could have been drafting 2nd and picked Keith Van Horn...then what? Thankfully (for them) they were awarded the #1 pick. We actually were respectable but we were also spurned, that is true. It helps my point because I've also said that winning increases the trade value of the players, this helped us pull off a trade for Harden because OKC thought Kevin Martin could be a championship piece...no doubt teams will be thinking the same of Ego if he keeps this up. I think it just depends on how it is done. If all of a sudden the Rockets say they are sitting Ego for example then it's clear what they are doing. I think if the Rockets were to say cut out a same deal for Ego as they had with Wall Silver might even step in because we'd be doing it with multiple players. If you're just trading a player that is playing well for you, that's your prerogative. Being sellers in a trade market isn't tanking. Tanking is only losing on purpose. Trading Ego and Wood would be rebuilding, it's just a team deciding that these two players aren't in our future and we are getting what we can for them. Ok but...we literally have threads where people are worried that we are winning too much...so I disagree. I think there are plenty of people wanting to lose at all costs. I don't consider trading older players tanking, or trading period. Trading a player simply means a team doesn't want him anymore any ways. Tanking is just when a team loses on purpose. You know it when you see it. Like the Rockets could pull out that theis wood lineup, go with that for the rest of the year, try to sit Ego...you know at that point whats going on there. If you're not for tanking then we agree. I'm really confused as to how that fits into it...are you arguing to just argue? You literally said you wanted to acquire more assets...I literally said that first page we should trade ego/wood for more assets yet...you've taken it completely differently. I'm seriously confused at this point. We agree but you simply don't want to agree with me.
Simmons only issue is his mental, talent wise he's perennial all-star and all world defender. I think a front court with Sabonis and Sengun would work if Sengun can work on his 3, it would be interesting, both are excellent passes, low post demons, it could be a frontcourt that would wreck shop on most teams. You're giving up a lot perimeter defensively though, that would be my only concern.
Yikes...... You got it bad. The thing is we know what Simmons is now...... I do value defense, maybe you overvalue it with Simmons and Sabonis even though you were right on Mobley? Tanking doesn't rely completely on luck. Going to just have to agree to disagree. Then they would have Keith Van Horn with Robinson instead. You still need to be in a spot to get the best player which is a choice and a strategy. Going to have agree to disagree. No we weren't, we kept getting spurned by every major FA. Did OKC really say Kevin Martin could be a championship piece? I doubt it. Talent increases the trade value of players.... contract situations..... it's not as simple as we were a mediocre team (aka winning to you) and therefore our players are valuable. Like we didn't try and move them before hand without any luck..... Right.... so I've been arguing for rebuilding not tanking. That's not the same thing as sabotaging the team as I am one of those people complaining. I still haven't heard this sabotage talk of sitting EG/Wood or moving Matthews/Tate. Mostly it's been your camp saying that's what we want..... I'm sure there are some posters who want to lose at all costs, but I think it's disingenuous to suggest "plenty of people want to lose at all costs". If you think I'm wrong then quantify or move on. I'm on team rebuild, not team trade for Simmons/Sabonis. I clearly have said I don't view Sabonois and Simmons as the right direction and you do. We've been arguing such.... I think your disdain for rebuilding through the draft is what set off this conversation. Would you trade Wood for Bagley (expiring) + 2022 pick swaps (better of Kings/BKN/Miami) + 2025 FRP (top 8 protected)?
I cut out most of that post because again...we're agreeing. But there are CLEARLY people that are for losing on purpose for draft picks. They make it quite clear whenever we win a game or a few games that they would have rather lost the game than won it. I mean this thread has people that are clearly against winning more games. Are you against winning more games? But again... I have no disdain for rebuilding through the draft. You just don't think a player like Simmons is worth trading for. That's fine. I think he is. We're not disagreeing on the strategy we're disagreeing on the impact a player like that would have. That's it. You think acquiring Ben Simmons would keep us mediocre and I do not think that. We can argue over how good Ben Simmons is...I think you criminally underrate him, but whatever, I think adding Ben Simmons to our young core would set us up extremely well with contending soon. I think fans, in general, overlook literally anything that doesn't have to do with scoring so think Simmons suck just because he can't shoot when he does literally everything else extremely well. But we're not disagreeing with the strategy. You just don't like say Simmons or Sabonis as much as I like these players, that's fine. Just like you didn't like Mobley as much as I did. That's fine. Would I make that Wood trade? Yes, not even because of Bagley who is whatever (another guy teams tanked for...) but because it's a pretty good bet the Kings will suck and give up good draft picks. Would I trade Wood for Sabonis? Yes. Would I trade Wood for Simmons. Yes. I mean my opinion on a trade is going to be different based on whats going in and whats coming out and how I feel about the players coming in and going out. I'm sure you're the same way. Hell, the FO is the same way that they won't always all be on board with any given move. But this idea that I hate the draft have a disdain for the draft...like, no. I hate losing on purpose. I have fairly moved on and not called you a tanker so you can fairly move on and stop saying I have a disdain for using the draft.
See, if the Rockets were in the same position as the OKC graced with multiple Top 8 picks throughout the years, I would be the first one to call it quits and call for more fire and competitiveness. The problem is that the Rockets were the opposite, never allowed to tank at all during most years. During Harden's 8 years there were no Top 10 picks even, let alone Top 5 picks. So I do not think advocating for 2 years of slightly more losing is preposterous to ask.......the angle counts.
2 Games out for a chance to compete for the pleasure of being blown out in 4 games straight by Golden State or Phx
Daddy Steph & the Warriors gonna come spank the Rockets again. Spanked Harden so many times he ran away. Or if we’re so lucky, the guy with “worst contract he’d ever seen in business or sports” will come and spank Tilman’s Rockets (while John Wall is in street clothes on the bench). Spoiler Anyways, maybe we can cash those Brooklyn picks in for Dame, give Wood his max deal and chase the playoffs/play-in tournament and be a “fun” team. Dame-Augustin-Nix Gordon-Mathews-Brooks House-Nwaba Tate-KMJr Wood-Theis #LightTheFuse Spoiler
Before last years draft if you were to add a point system to the draft 30 points for the 1st pick all the way to the last pick being 1 point. I wonder where the Rockets would rank in total points in say the last 20-25 years. I would guess very very low on the list of teams.
Well, we can't make up for not drafting high all those years? I don't feel that is relevant here because that was years ago. We couldn't have drafted high then because we have Harden. It simply wasn't even an option so we can't be trying to make up for years where it was impossible to draft high any ways outside of some trade boon. Someone in another thread mentioned that the Suns were doing it right...the Suns who have sucked for....a long time now, and all they have to show for it is Ayton, a guy they don't even feel is worth the max contract. Booker, a guy drafted #13 so not someone they tanked for and CP3, a player they traded for. Most teams, I'll say this over and over again, are built on one top 5 guy, maybe two if you're really lucky. I just like to bring up these teams that have sucked for years and usually have one or two guys to show for it...so like this idea that if you just tank you're loading up on talent isn't true. This happens rarely. If you're GM is worth it you're not doing this for long, if you're GM isn't then we'll be here 5 years from now going "Okay guys, next draft will be the one!" and at that point you're OKC.
You already have Sengün, now I do hope Green can be that borderline Allstar. Then you would need elite snipers around Sengün, defenders, a PG and another star. De'Aaron Fox/Jamal Murray as PG, if we can snatch him up. If Gordon were 23 right now instead of being almost 33, for sure I would be happy. (Jabari would be the perfect guy to replace Wood IMO) Fox (Green/another youngin), Mathews KMJ or Tate or sharpshooter Jabari Smith Sengün That is Play Off and more.
this is how drug users justify their thing... ill do it just this one time...just one more time...ill do it just once..i can stop it whenever i want..
