1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. Live Rockets Discussion
    Jalen Green looks like a legit star, Amen Thompson is shining and the Rockets have found something without Alperen Sengun. Clutch is talking about the 10-game winning streak at 11:00am as we talk Rockets live!

    Talking Rockets - LIVE!

Poll: Top Pick or Play-in Tourney?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, Dec 4, 2021.

?

Which would make you happier to see happen at the end of the season?

  1. Rockets get a top 5 pick in the draft

  2. Rockets make the play-in tourney

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,051
    Likes Received:
    15,997
    my point being it wasn’t even one top 5 pick .

    they didn’t tank . They were on the lower end of mediocre .

    furthermore , their first high pick had injury problems early in his career limiting him .

    right now we just had a 6 game win streak . We are still in like for a top 10 pick .. are we tanking ?

    It’s OK to lose game. It’s OK to improve at a slow pace or to have the focus being adding young players . It’s not acceptable to intentionally lose all season long
     
  2. xaos

    xaos Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    6,147
    Likes Received:
    15,391
    This is a very critical piece of information. The picks we owe OKC 24, complicated swap 25 & owe in 26 makes tanking completely useless (unless if we play the super dangerous ill-advised top 4 pick protected game) after 2024. We have defined timelines where if we want high picks, this is likely the only way until 2027! We also have picks or swaps with Nets until that time so we still have a chance for picks, just no control over the quality of them.

    Those same picks we owe also limits us from making trades for high value assets, so the best way to acquire them is through our own draft.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  3. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,365
    Likes Received:
    16,514
    It's a paradox. Because playing Sengun more minutes would actually be anti-tank, but playing Green more minutes would be pro-tank.
     
    NewAge likes this.
  4. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,050
    Likes Received:
    23,939
    There is really no need to label or pigeonhole people as pro-tank or anti-tank (maybe for a few). This kind of poll, tbh, is divisive. There are plenty of reasonable people here who see the rebuilding not as an either/or kind of thing. You have to look at how players develop. It is clearly still very early and a lot of things need to be played out for anyone to have a more solid take.
     
    clutchdabear, snowconeman22 and xaos like this.
  5. xaos

    xaos Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    6,147
    Likes Received:
    15,391


    Just more confirmation that this is the direction we will be heading 1 year minimum - if it wasn't already blatantly obvious before.
     
  6. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    50,145
    Likes Received:
    40,816
    Tanking is when an organization intentionally loses in order to get high draft picks.

    Period. That's all its ever been. That's how the NBA sees it and how they judge it.

    Teams have sat down young players in order to tank. Pelicans tanked with Anthony Davis to try and get Zion, the league had to force them to play Anthony Davis.

    So tanking in this case would be EVEN if your young team started to play well you'd start to try and sit guys and extend minor injuries to halt wnining. Tanking isn't just playing young players, it's finding ways to lose.

    Now they are in the same position and Zion is seemingly already looking to leave. I think pro-tankers never talk about the risk of it, they make it seem like you're just going to draft superstars as long as you're drafting top 3.
     
    NewAge, snowconeman22 and Easy like this.
  7. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,051
    Likes Received:
    15,997
    imo that’s just too low a bar .

    I could be the GM of the team if the goal is to suck for 3 years . I could be the coach if we don’t care about wins .

    once you get a franchise guy , the wins start coming pretty quickly .

    Hypothetical ...

    we drafted Mobley at 2 and still got sengun and JC (and another guard )

    say kpj / Mobley / and sengun are all looking good and we are a couple of wins better than right now . Are y’all advocating for shutting players down to get a better pick .. or would you want the core to try to win as many as possible and try to get meaningful playoff experience?

    Agreed we were lucky to keep the pick . So far having a number 2 overall talent hasn’t hurt us in terms of winning too much . I wish it would .

    If we play the young guys and get the 10 overall pick that’s fine .. you can find talent there and it means you were able to play like an NBA team on a decent percentage of nights .

    but ... the mindset can’t be to try to get 3 top 4 picks in a row . It’s agaisnt coaching incentives and means that guys aren’t learning to play the game the right way
     
    NewAge likes this.
  8. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,939
    Likes Received:
    12,824
    The anti Rockets keep forgetting this part….

    We are incentivized to rebuild until the 2024 season then we are tempting fate we a top 4 protected pick that goes to OKC.
     
    xaos likes this.
  9. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,939
    Likes Received:
    12,824
    Wood and EG putting on a good show for other teams.
     
    xaos likes this.
  10. xaos

    xaos Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    6,147
    Likes Received:
    15,391
    Agree that there are a large chunk of reasonable people that see rebuilding not as an either/or kind of thing, however it merits good discussion related to where we are sprinkled in with some general examples/assumptions/odds. I say this because this is really the underlying issue with other topics (ex: should we trade for Ben Simmons, do we trade Wood if he wants the max, etc). The whole board will never completely agree which is what makes these conversations fun and useful
     
    Easy likes this.
  11. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    63,171
    Likes Received:
    25,826
    Pulling off a miracle to trade for Harden, then wasting the #2 pick on a scrub like Green does not change the likelihood of one path working vs another.... the reason the thunder had Harden to begin with was their tanking
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,939
    Likes Received:
    12,824
    We are rebuilding, to use the correct terminology. There will be shameless position jockeying down the stretch on our part or our competitors.

    We are going to try and trade away good vets/rising young vets in EG and Wood to preserve the high draft pick this year while simultaneously being willingly to trade away whatever it takes for a superstar.
     
    snowconeman22 and JayGoogle like this.
  13. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,050
    Likes Received:
    23,939
    Yeah. But Simmons is pretty clear cut to me. I think only a handful of people are still hanging on to his "potential."

    Wood is entirely another matter. I can't decide what we should do with him. He's not like Gordon who at his age is clearly not a "future" kind of player. Wood is just starting to enter his prime. He looks like a very good player but not a centerpiece to build around. And he is about to demand a max contract. If the rookies we have are superstar materials and can develop fast enough, then we should keep him and take this team to war in a couple of years. But if they aren't that special or need more time to grow, then Wood is out of our timeline and should be traded as his value is very high now.
     
    xaos and JayGoogle like this.
  14. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,839
    Likes Received:
    13,895
    Tanking is losing on purpose usually to boost draft position. Developing players to win in the future, and being open to whatever the results may be short term (though likely losing) is not tanking.
     
    NewAge likes this.
  15. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    50,145
    Likes Received:
    40,816
    I actually agree with this.

    I'm just not sure if the team will trade Wood. I just don't like the mentality of either we're drafting top 3 or we did something wrong. That seems to be an overreaction to me.

    I could see a scenario where we draft 8th or something and trade Wood/EGO for future picks and maybe even another first round pick to where we are doing what we did this year, drafting 3 times in the first round or getting assets to make up for the OKC swaps.
     
    NewAge and xaos like this.
  16. HorryForThree

    HorryForThree Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    3,882
    We need one more tank. The current rosters peak is NY Knicks territory, which is the epitome of basketball purgatory. I'd much rather get one more stud in the draft and build for a big jump next season and then playoff run in 2023 vs being stuck in the 8-17 range for the foreseeable future.
     
  17. VanityHalfBlack

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    18,087
    Likes Received:
    3,726
    Play in tourney baby! Got no time for that bro.
     
  18. NewAge

    NewAge Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    2,650
    That’s fine, that’s legit. "Tanking" by roster reconstruction is legit rebuilding. It’s,front office activity that should be isolated from the team.

    Team and coach cannot be part of the “tanking" however! That’s messed-up.
    You have your roster, coach sets rotation and system to win and everyone tries their best to win.
    F.O. trades EG, who’s balling right now, that’s fine. But whoever is on team after the trade, they still try to win.

    The worst thing is the suits meddling in the gym, that’s a recipe for dysfunction
     
    Easy and snowconeman22 like this.
  19. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,419
    Likes Received:
    10,117
    I'm not trying to paint either side of this argument as unreasonable. There's no right answer here. I don't think anyone is wrong for being on either side of this. The point I'm trying to make is that this idea that some have labeled as "losing organically" is just tanking. Players don't lose on purpose, coaches don't lose on purpose, organizations tank. If the rockets trade Wood and Gordon so that they can play all their rookies and up finishing the season 3-25, that is tanking. If the rockets FO hypothetically mandated that they want Jalen Green closing games instead of Eric Gordon for the good of his development, that is tanking. All tanking is for the future long term success of the team, the idea that there are teams out there doing otherwise is a strawman. It's all tanking.
     
    Easy and xaos like this.
  20. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    13,020
    Likes Received:
    7,784
    I consider Wood a "young guy" who fits our young core. Not saying we have OKC's big 3 but that team still had Collison and Perkins.

    Gordon, Wall, DJ Augustine are the only one who really don't fit the timeline imo.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now