Delusional high school kids mad that Dave Chappelle is more successful than them

I agree that those attacking the special haven't seen it and don't understand the context. I have zero problem with his special.

There are many ways to handle a high school kid's indignation that don't involve calling it childish.

Some are funnier than Chappelle's approach, some are more politic, and some are more solution oriented to those who don't understand the context of his special.

But all of them are better than going back and forth high school students. What he says isn't wrong, but it is still hitting down and there were much better ways to deal with it.

 

The funny thing about that is Dave never had an issue with black people. I don't know a single black person that disliked his jokes or thought they were too far. I mean I'm sure they exist, but there wasn't this movement to get his show taken off air. Black comedians talk about black people...all the time. It's hard to find a black comedian that doesn't. Honestly every black person I know loves Dave...and being black, I know a lot of black people.

Dave canceled himself because he realized that the jokes were being taken the wrong way, he said he felt shame or something like that when he realized who was laughing at the jokes. Reminds me of the Boondocks actually.

I think the issue with his trans jokes aren't that they are trans jokes but as one trans comedian said, he's joking about things they can't change. I think it's a futile effort to tell a group of people you aren't a part of what they can and can't be offended by. Dave offended the trans community for a reason, you might not understand that reason and that's fine but imagining that he didn't isn't going to help anything or saying that they have no grounds to be offended isn't going to help either.

Also, he did more than ask questions, he took clear stances (Like being team TERF) that weren't even jokes. I'm not sure if Dave knows what that term means but proudly saying he's a TERF is about as anti-trans as it gets.

 

No he went there, and got defensive with high schoolers. Did you not read the OP? Apparently he came around in the end and was very gracious, but there was some moments in the talk/QA where he obviously sounds like someone who just cannot let it go.... hence why I said "Let it Go Dave."

 

Everyone gets that this is what he's trying to do. The problem is the jokes aren't landing, people are exercising their free speech that they found it mean spirited, and not funny, and Dave is then using people's free speech in order to go viral to further promote himself using the "Cancel Culture" card that so many like Bill Maher are trying to use.

I do think that trans people do need to be brought into the living room a bit so everyone can really remove the taboo, and one way of doing that is to laugh via comedy... but the problem is the community being laughed at needs to be in the room, and have trust built up before they are roasted. That's the central ingredient missing from Dave's act on trans, and why it comes off as mean spirited instead of laughing at a brother or sister, etc. Good comedy works when there is trust there, and obviously from the reactions that come from the LGBTQ community it seems like Dave really missed an opportunity to build some trust prior to his act.

Again... it's not me... it's LGBTQ people who have spoken out as is their right. People need to stop trying to argue with people like me who are just trying to explain what is happening and how they are being manipulated, and do some research about the actual responses from those who are actually voicing their opinion that his act is hurtful.

 

Because there was trust and credibility with that community. Dave spent his entire life as a black man in America, and he had a fairly decent career prior to his first big stand up special, and then Chapelle Show. I think it's just a question to ask someone who is LGBTQ in the end as to why the jokes came off as hurtful, but my take given what I know about comedy is it was about being able to speak from experience as a participant in the community.

There's also the problem of being mean spirited. I think Alec Baldwin's portrayal of Trump is a good example. Alec Baldwin hates him, and it shows through his impersonation which then is just not funny. But then look back at Darrell Hammond's Bill Clinton, and Will Ferrell's W Bush. Both of those guys did a great job of really getting to the personality of the person they were playing, and were enjoying it. Norm McDonald said once that you really have to like the person you are making fun of in some way or it just doesn't work.

In a way there's something to be said about that in regards to Dave's act on LGBTQ, but I think it's not me that has the answers for you. I think you just gotta see if that's what they felt (that Dave didn't really know them, doesn't understand us, and really doesn't like us) to know if that's the reason why so many OF THEM were speaking out after his multiple Netflix specials, and his defensiveness/cancel culture cards that were played for obvious reasons.

 

Chappelle is probably redirecting or resurfacing a lot of unresolved anger from the Comedy Central dispute. An apparent lack of substance abuse or domestic issues and unprecedented compensation for stand-up performances will probably sustain his pride or anger and prevent any public contrtion, barring any coordinated and perpetual protests at all of his set gigs.

 

This part of your post is it. 100%

They have to be part of it, as Dave said in the end of his special, the goal should be laughing with them, not at them.

I still like Dave, at least as much as I'm allowed to like someone I don't know and have only heard stories of. I think...or hope, eventually he'll get it. This is a perfect opportunity for more comedians of that community to step in and say "It's okay to joke about us but here is the line, don't cross this line."

I mentioned this before but I do have a best friend that is gay and borderline queer and has, before, openly worn skirts...so yeah. When I talked to him about the Dave thing he thought certain parts of it were funny. The Alphabets thing was funny. The 'They/them' stuff was funny...but the TERF thing bothered him and the constant jokes about genitals. He thought in general it just promotes misgendering people for your own amusement.

I don't think comedians know where that line is with the LGBTQ+ community and it's fine to search for that line but when you're called out on it, maybe back off a little?

I find these discussions about jokes odd. I think most people have made a joke or two to someone that crossed a line. I never forget when I joked about an Asian friend with other friends and when I retold the jokes in private to him he told me they weren't funny. He didn't want to say he was offended but I could tell he was. I told him "My bad, I just didn't know" and we moved on.

So what I don't get...when you tell a joke that crosses the line what do you do? Do you...

A.) Apologize realizing that you've offended someone.
B.) Tell them to get over it.
c.) Claim everyone is out to get you and cancel you.

I'm just wondering what people would do in that situation, my guess is if you care about the person you've offended, you'll apologize. If you don't care, you'll pretend they are the problem and must be stupid for not getting your comedy.

 

I don't think the trans community are the biggest voices among Cancel Culture, which is Dave's main criticism among his latest specials. It's just easier to spend more time on them since their complaints are less understood and more prone to be delegitimized.

Yeah, he targets everyone in his bits but he still reinforces 90s stereotypes among trans without any sense of growth or empathy.

While he does expose hypocrisy, it can also be the case where he is implying that blacks are suffering more as a group than trans because the biggest voices can pass as white (empowered/entitled) or female (victimized) in order to take him down a peg.

I don't know. I just can't agree with apologists that he's trying to understand "their suffering" when he continues to use the same regressive 90s tropes in his routine. I mean anything can be funny but not sure where Dave wants his voice to represent. He seemed to be proud of that Twain award, so he does give a **** about it to some extent.

His point sometimes sounds like: where the hell did you folks come from, and do I/we really have to legitimize your presence with the other Bigger Issues lying around?

After all, if his bottom line really was that "Comedians should absolutely be unfiltered", he'd have to amp up his efforts on more powerful groups in the PC crowd...

 

Wasn't that the whole point of this event though? The Politico article said he actually only took comments and questions from those who disagree with them.

From what I can read on this event, Chappelle did nothing wrong. People wanted to complain to him so he let them complain. He didn't necessarily agree with their complaints but I don't think anyone would argue that he should be forced to agree. I think Politico (and then TMZ) just published this **** because stupid culture war stuff is what gets clicks and shares - not because it's actual news.

 

Tinmans worship of rich people going as far as defending one when he picks a fight with high schoolers is quite pathetic

 

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about with what Dave is intending to do:

https://michaelhobbes.substack.com/p/dave-chappelles-some-of-my-best-friends

Dave in his bit is choosing to tug at people's emotions in a way that fits his overall narrative about "Cancel Culture" or "woke culture" or whatever and paints it in the starkest terms possible that people are literally dying as a result of it.

The fact that Dave is misleading people about it too speaks to his intent.

......

The last thing I'll say about this is I just really feel its a shame because he's such a great comedian and he doesn't NEED to do this. His "Ask a Gay Guy" bit on the Chappelle Show was hilarious, and it didn't have to be fabricated into this big disingenuous viral ordeal.

With Bill Maher I actually do see business interest in doing it because it's inevitable that his ratings were going to plummet with Trump out of the White House so he needed new viewers to avoid getting canceled by HBO and losing his big stand up gigs in Vegas.

But Chapelle is better than that, and he's better than this. I think in the end he has some good intentions, and maybe there will be a moment where he finally figures out that he doesn't need to cheapen his legacy just for a viral moment in time where a bunch of right wing nuts came rushing to defend him against the air just because they are aggrieved, and live in perpetual fantasy victimland 24/7. I think there is potential for Chappelle to have some really solid years ahead where he can sort of regain his voice a bit.... but like all great comedy you have to earn the right to get people to laugh at themselves.

 

It is the Trans community and their supporters that is right now the biggest drive of him being canceled from Netflix. So I'm not sure what you mean there.

As for the 90''s stereotype trophs - have you seen his last two acts that are at the center of all this controversy? When he says you have to find it funny that transgender people have the unusual predicament of being born in the wrong body - there isn't anything there are puts them down or delegitimizes them, in fact he is normalizing the idea that transgender individuals are born the way they are, and its not a decision they make later on - the key fight the community is facing in being accepted. He is in fact normalizing them but they are focused on feeling offended.

I'm not an apologist for Dave Chappelle, I'm a supporter. Whether you find his comedy funny or not, what he is doing is beneficial to the transgender community which I also support. Like I said, he's normalizing them the way gays have been normalized.

He in fact makes it a point that you can not compare the suffering of one group to another. That it's impossible. His point isn't that one group suffers more than the other, it's that in our culture we accept racial bias in the media without complaint - that was his point about Da baby.

 

I disagree that he is using others free speech to "go viral" and draw attention to himself. He's offered to have a dialogue with the community and seems sincerely interested in lifting people up. He doesn't promote himself to be anything other than a comedian.

People have the right to free speech, but I don't like the call to try to have someone canceled that you find offensive. I think we as a culture need to develop thicker skin. It's one thing to criticize and call for an apology, it's another to call for someone to be fired or cancelled.

 

I don't think he understands the full story of what JK Rowlings stance is which is truly discriminatory.

Again, see my above post. You can't control who you might offend, but he says things that could be deeply offensive to Jews for instance but why aren't they up in arms? Is it because they get its comedy?

 

He doesn't believe that though. He clearly accepts that transgender people are legit.

 

So why do you think he felt he needed to fabricate the story of the Trans women getting bullied into killing herself??? How is the main message not "Cancel Culture is Dangerous??" His whole point was that "Cancel Culture" took a life. Cancel Culture that was about HIM.. Dave Chapelle. He didn't make the issue about the struggles of trans people. He made it about him, and how he's a victim along with other comedians.

I can't speak to the intentions of why Dave and also Bill Maher would want to use "Cancel Culture" to get a bigger microphone, but arguing that they actually are NOT both doing that intentionally is pretty flabbergasting. There is some online activists that spam people they don't agree with, and you can call that what you want (cancel culture, woke culture, whatever) but Dave Chappelle and certainly Bill Maher are both NOT victims of it.

They are using it as a boogeyman to get a larger microphone for better or worse. It's so obvious that I don't really know why you need to defend him so deeply on it. If he uses the boogeyman in order to do something good in the end then more power to him. Bill Maher could be using it to in a few months actually deprogram Trump supporters for crying out loud. I'm not here to judge, but for sure I'm going to call a spade a spade.