1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Paolo Banchero vs Chet Holmgren

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by MystikArkitect, Nov 9, 2021.

?

Chet "The Jet" Holmgren or Paolo "The Lambo" Banchero?

  1. Holmgren

  2. Banchero

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    11,754
    Likes Received:
    9,438
    Knowing he had been drinking/drunk

    College freshman who is in the running to be the 1st pick overall
     
  2. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    11,754
    Likes Received:
    9,438
    Most teenagers I know aren’t in the running to be potential 1st overall picks in the NBA.

    Have to be smarter and use better judgment period.

    Has so much to lose/risk
     
  3. BigggReddd

    BigggReddd Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    5,853
    Man, Clutchfans really loves being wrong. Gonna take the flashy offensive stud over the unicorn two years in a row?:rolleyes:
     
    fckbandwagons likes this.
  4. palmsnbananas

    palmsnbananas Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    2,315
    What are you even talking about lol
    He was a drunk passenger in the back seat of his car? Anyways
     
  5. palmsnbananas

    palmsnbananas Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    2,315
    What on earth does this mean hahah
    Oh yeah there's a huge list of athletes who's careers were cut short because of muscle cramps I added it below:
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  6. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    25,610
    Likes Received:
    13,511
    uhm. one of the reasons I have never played in the NBA is because of a cramp that I got in the arch of my foot. those really hurt
     
    jiggyfly and palmsnbananas like this.
  7. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,337
    Likes Received:
    9,746
    Give Chet some Giannis supplements and he is a monster. Everything about Chet's game looks higher upside to me than Banchero. Banchero's body is clearly more developed and that's his major advantage. Chet has legitimate game changing NBA size and fluidity. Banchero is too much of a ball stopper for my liking. The Melo comparison feels pretty accurate in that sense. His shot feels like it is going to take more work than Chet's as well.
     
    fckbandwagons, Nook and DreamR like this.
  8. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    11,754
    Likes Received:
    9,438
    And the driver was intoxicated anything could of happened.

    Again just have to use better judgment and make better choices when your a potential 1st pick overall and have so much to lose.
     
  9. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2000
    Messages:
    10,080
    Likes Received:
    3,833
    A comparison I heard on Banchero that made some sense to me was Amare Stoudemire. Not the same player (pre-injury Amare was an athletic freak), but similar in terms of being absolute weapons at a big man spot on the offensive side of the court in basically any circumstance - PnR, PnP, down low, spot up shooter.

    The issue is he just doesn’t appear to have much defensive upside beyond “fine”. He’s not much of a rim protector, and he doesn’t look like a he’s a witch when switching on to smaller opponents. Holmgren is already an elite rim protector, and appears to be more comfortable in space on the perimeter. If he can build the strength to not get bullied, he’s a game changer defensively with a ++ offensive game too.

    Banchero looks like he’ll be putting up 20-10 by year 2 and could easily make multiple all star teams but may not ultimately be capable of being a top 2 player on title contender due to his limitations. Holmgren may ultimately be just a really good tertiary piece if he can’t add strength, but he has the upside to be the best player on a title contender.
     
    robbie380 likes this.
  10. DreamR

    DreamR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2021
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    2,116
    Teams in the lottery are not drafting players because of what they can do right after being drafted

    The teams with the best picks are one of the worst in the league and are years away from contention

    They're drafting them for what they will become in 3-5 years when those teams are ready to really compete

    The most important thing is not immediate near star level contribution (although that's great to see), it's yearly improvement and overall potential.

    I think Banchero is going to come out of the gate better than Chet, but 3-5 years down the line I think Chet will be the better player
     
    cmoak1982 likes this.
  11. Aware

    Aware Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    2,518
    Banchero is fun to say

    +1 for Banchero
     
    RudyTBag likes this.
  12. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,740
    Likes Received:
    20,470
    It means that he is already having issues with cramping. He’s left the same multiple times now. That isn’t normal for a 19 year old and is a precursor for soft tissue injuries.

    Have you ever played a sport?
     
  13. The geth & the reaper

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    364
    I thought Banchero was pronounced Ban-Che-(as in Chevy)-Ro, announcers keep saying Ban-carol
     
    OkayAyeReloaded likes this.
  14. Denovo

    Denovo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    2,684
    Cramping is not a precursor for injuries… it’s a diet and hydration issue. Considering he just got in trouble for a drinking related incident he probably parties like a normal college student and doesn’t properly hydrate to make up for his activity levels. I guarantee he doesn’t have enough potassium in his diet.

    His teammates have had cramping issues as well they probably party together.
     
    jiggyfly and red5rocket like this.
  15. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,740
    Likes Received:
    20,470
    Cramping isn’t just hydration related. It’s the primary reason, but for it to keep happening it could indicate overuse, imbalances in development and even current strains/sprains that are undiagnosed.
     
  16. Denovo

    Denovo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    2,684
    I believe you’re overthinking it my guy. But if he does come out with reoccurring soft tissues later down the line, I’ll be the first to give you props.
     
    jiggyfly and cmoak1982 like this.
  17. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,740
    Likes Received:
    20,470
    It most likely isn’t, but as a coach and someone who works in athletics, it’s a red flag and I would be reworking his flexibility and conditioning program. That frequent is unusual
     
    OkayAyeReloaded and Denovo like this.
  18. Denovo

    Denovo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    2,684
    I agree with you there. A change has to be made. If an improved diet/hydration and conditioning doesn’t fix the issue it’s definitely a bigger problem.

    In my experience as coach, player, CPT, cramping is an easy fix.

    I wish I could get my younger brother to fix his habits goin into his senior season but you know teenagers don’t listen lol.
     
    cmoak1982 likes this.
  19. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    108,239
    Likes Received:
    158,323
    https://www.si.com/nba/2021/11/29/nba-draft-stock-watch-paolo-banchero-chet-holmgren-jabari-smith

    First of all, the hype was real. And while nothing will be decided off of one game, the clear winner of the matchup was Banchero, who entered the season as SI’s top prospect. He scored 20 points and drained several impressive jumpers in a dominant first half, before battling severe cramps in the second that limited his minutes and effectiveness.

    Banchero is looking more and more like a legit No. 1 option on offense. He banged in confident jumpers in transition that helped to assuage concerns about him becoming a consistent three-point threat. He may be a true three-level shot creator with size and strength to boot. Banchero’s polish and maturity set him apart from most college players, let alone freshmen, and he’s already figured out how to strike a balance between being a high-usage scorer without being inherently selfish. There were a number of opportunities throughout the game where Banchero could have taken on Holmgren one-on-one early in the shot clock to prove a point. I found it refreshing that he was content to play team basketball, generally avoiding shots that broke the flow of the offense.

    Of course, Holmgren’s length was a factor in those decisions too (Banchero admitted as much in the postgame press conference), but it’s highly encouraging how well Banchero seems to see and think the game in real time. He’s reputed as a hard worker, and it’s evident up close how seriously he takes his craft. He didn’t hunt shots after returning from cramps and told the media his intent was only to “be solid” in the interest of the team. At this point, other than his inconsistent defensive play, it’s hard to nitpick substantial holes in Banchero’s game. He looks like an immediate franchise cornerstone ready to make an impact as a rookie.

    As for Holmgren, the results were a bit mixed, as he faced off against a Duke team that started four potential first-round picks. Holmgren simply wasn’t very effective or aggressive in the first half. He didn’t shoot well from distance against Duke, but played much better in the second half, and it’s a good bet that he’ll gradually figure out how to be effective in the NBA.

    He’s always been comfortable with physical play for a guy who’s quite thin, and that’s not really the problem. Holmgren simply doesn’t wield the type of mass that allows him to consistently initiate contact and finish when he has the ball. Thankfully, he seems to know this—on the occasions where he got downhill, he tended to pivot back into fadeaway jumpers instead of attacking Duke's bigs. Teams are trying to deduce whether Holmgren is really a stretch five, or if he can moonlight as a supersized wing in a role that could better play to his strengths. He has guard-like skills, but like most 7-footers, he’s going to need advantageous opportunities created for him. The fear is that he'll have to rely more on less-efficient midrange looks when he’s trying to get himself a shot. His three-point shooting is pivotal to sustained efficiency.

    On the defensive end, I left Las Vegas encouraged about Holmgren’s rim protection translating in a real way. I don’t think his body type is necessarily going to change how effective he is on that end. Part of why he’s such a good shot blocker is that he’s smart enough to know what he can and can’t do. If a strong player comes downhill with the ball and can initiate contact with Holmgren’s chest, they can bump him off his angle and create space to get off rim attempts. In college, most players can’t do that consistently, but NBA players are going to challenge him. Holmgren compensates by using space and his nimble feet to his advantage: he’s learned to backpedal as long as he can, and avoids being hit to better utilize his length and hands to make plays on the ball. It's not perfect, and he may not meet people at the rim all the time, but it can work. The simple fear of him lurking makes him extremely effective.

    Holmgren doesn’t need to be the No. 1 pick to deliver on his promise, but his pathway to hitting that ceiling is murkier than that of Banchero or Jabari Smith, and more convoluted than that of your typical top-three pick.
     
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    108,239
    Likes Received:
    158,323
    https://theathletic.com/2983939/202...ukes-paolo-banchero-hollingers-week-that-was/

    PROSPECT OF THE WEEK: Paolo Banchero, freshman PF, Duke

    (Note: This section won’t necessarily profile the best prospect of the week. Just the one I’ve been watching.)

    Paolo Banchero is the big name in draft world this week after his 21-point performance in Duke’s win Friday over top-ranked Gonzaga, where he matched up against the most likely alternative for the 2022 top pick, the Zags’ Chet Holmgren. Between that and a 22-point effort in Duke’s other high-profile matchup, a season-opening win over Kentucky, Banchero has certainly impressed.

    Through seven college games, he has a 30.0 PER and an 11.0 BPM, stats that would be eye-opening even for a senior. He’s averaging 35.9 points per 100 possessions, only 3.4 turnovers per 100 and is shooting 60.9 percent on 2s.

    The biggest positives for the 6-foot-10 19-year-old are the perimeter skills he packs at his size. One particular sequence Friday — a grab-and-go where he pushed in transition and hit center Mark Williams with a perfectly timed alley-oop — stood out as a remarkable example of his skill set. Banchero can handle the ball and shoot, particularly from midrange. His ability to iso opponents at the elbow and shoot over them feels like a ready-made NBA skill, particularly in switches. He’s also made eight of his 24 3-point attempts and 26 of his 31 free-throw attempts, and the eye test on his release looks good.

    Defensively, Banchero shows enough mobility to play against forwards and match up against threes or fours at the NBA level, although you wouldn’t say he’s flashed elite talent at that end just yet. Despite his size, he doesn’t have superior length, and you wouldn’t call him a rim protector, which could limit his utility as a five.

    Overall, you might compare him to recent prospects such as Carmelo Anthony (good!) or Jabari Parker (errr …), big forwards who can handle the ball and are very comfortable — perhaps too comfortable — operating from midrange. Of course, he’s not obligated to continue shooting from that distance. And notably, Banchero is bigger than both those comps referenced above.

    Now that he’s established himself as a near-certain top-three pick, of course, we have four months to go wart-hunting. The bar is higher at this point in the draft, and scouts will want to see more to keep him above Holmgren and the fast-rising Jabari Smith on their boards.

    In particular, scouts are going to want to see more of the passing and creating skills he flashed on that transition sequence noted above. They’d also like to see more basket attacks and less reliance on 17-foot pull-ups, and more disruptive juice as a defender.

    And in the bigger picture, scouts will be asking themselves the type of questions you only ask at the top of the draft: Can this guy be the best player on a good team? Can we build around a 6-10 power forward in a perimeter league? Can he play the five in fourth quarters?

    We have half a year to kick this decision around, and this past weekend was just one game. But for now, Banchero has a leg up for the top pick.
     
    i3artow i3aller and jiggyfly like this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now