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The Jalen Green Experiment is Over

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by atam, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    1. Evan Mobley, Cleveland Cavaliers

    Here’s the thing: So far, the top six names on this list have all been really, really good. The rookie class has been strong this year. And at the end of the day, it’s not even close who should be at the top. Evan Mobley is far and away the pick at No. 1 right now if you value defense in any way.

    He’s the best rookie defender the NBA has seen in quite a few years. Everything he does on that end is absolutely sublime. He covers an immense amount of ground, and his presence has completely transformed the Cavaliers defensively. The team is 10th in the NBA in defensive rating right now not solely because of him, but he plays the biggest role. His mobility on the perimeter is the only reason the Cavaliers can play enormous lineups with three bigs that work. Mobley contests the second-most shots per game in the NBA behind Spurs center Jakob Poeltl, with opponents only shooting 43.8 percent on them. He contests eight shots around the basket per game, and opponents shoot 8 percent worse than expected on those shots. He contests seven shots per game outside of 15 feet, which is a large number for a 7-footer whom teams aren’t exactly trying to attack with regularity.

    He’s everywhere on the court all at once defensively, a savant who flies around and covers an enormous amount of ground while playing a lot of his minutes so far with some mixture of Collin Sexton, Darius Garland and Lauri Markkanen, sometimes all at the same time. Mobley has all the tools to win a Defensive Player of the Year award someday. The critical skill is his length mixed with his flexibility and fluidity in terms of footwork. It’s exceedingly difficult to beat the guy in space. Just 15 games into his career, he’s already one of the best switch defenders among bigs in the league. Not many 7-footers in the NBA can defend Damian Lillard in space in the final two minutes of a close game, let alone swat him at the rim while staying in front. The number of 20-year-olds who can do that probably stops at one.



    He’s also exceptional in help. If you have your head down while you’re driving and don’t notice him lurking from the weak side, that ball is getting sent back with impunity as Payton Pritchard learned recently. Mobley is ambidextrous as a rim protector, sometimes even preferring the left hand as his weapon of choice.



    All of this is also without getting into the fact that Mobley is averaging nearly 15 points, eight rebounds and three assists per night. He’s making a 3 every other game. He’s running dribble-handoffs and even initiating the Cavs offense on grab-and-gos or from the high-post area at times. He’s a versatile, valuable chess piece and has quickly emerged not only as the Cavaliers’ centerpiece but also as one of the most valuable assets in the NBA. He’s recovering from a sprained elbow that’s going to keep him out for a couple of weeks, but the rookie rankings here couldn’t be more excited to see him get back out on the court.

    2. Scottie Barnes, Toronto Raptors
    3. Franz Wagner, Orlando Magic
    4. Cade Cunningham, Detroit Pistons
    5. Chris Duarte, Indiana Pacers
    6. Josh Giddey, Oklahoma City Thunder
    7. Davion Mitchell, Sacramento Kings
    8. Herb Jones, New Orleans Pelicans
    9. Alperen Sengun, Houston Rockets

    One of the more dumbfounding things I’ve seen recently in the NBA happened on Wednesday night, when Stephen Silas only played Sengun for a five-minute stretch in the second quarter of the Rockets’ game against Oklahoma City. The Rockets are 1-14 this season. They are horrible and don’t really have any chance to make the playoffs. This ship isn’t turning around for the 2021-22 season. Silas said he thought Daniel Theis was playing too well to take off the court, but that’s such bizarre rationale that doesn’t match the situation the Rockets are in. Sengun is producing at a pretty high level and playing well. Over the past nine games prior to that one, Sengun had averaged 10 points, five rebounds, two assists and a steal in just 20 minutes per game. He’s been outplaying Theis for the last three weeks despite getting fewer minutes.

    Sengun does get his feet stuck in the mud on defense sometimes, and there are moments where he gets cooked defensively. But his feel for the game and reactivity is outstanding. He’s fifth in the NBA in deflections per minute. Even if he’s still learning how to best use his body to make up for the lack of mobility, he’s not totally useless out there because he creates a lot of transition offensive opportunities. But all of that pales in comparison to what he does offensively, which is where his real value lies. The team is just so much better when he’s out there. He fosters ball movement and has an innate sense of how to find the open areas of the court out of ball screens, knowing when to short roll or roll all the way to the rim to pressure the defense. Right now, he’s best as a high-post initiator who reads the floor, sees what’s available and has real dribble/pass/shoot ability to actually take advantage of it. He essentially allows the Rockets to play four- or five-out while also maintaining a presence on the glass because of how smart and instinctive he is as a rebounder.

    He also excels at the “spin-and-seal” when teams switch against him. He’ll prep to set a screen, and as soon as he realizes they’re going to switch it, he slips it and gets a body on the ballhandler defender by spinning in order to seal him off and create a post mismatch. He’s pretty lethal as a post mismatch scorer, as he has a ton of tricks.

    I’d expect that by the end of the year, when he’s playing 25 to 30 minutes per night because the Rockets are truly out of it, he will be among the most productive rookies in the class. Where his ultimate future lies is in his ability to hold up consistently on defense.

    10a. Jalen Suggs, Orlando Magic
    10b. Jalen Green, Houston Rockets

    Jalen Green has had some beautiful, explosive moments for the Rockets. His 30 points against the Celtics were incredibly fun. The shot-making display he put on at the end of the team’s second game against the Lakers was incredibly impressive and showcased what his upside is long-term as a primary scoring option. But the highlights aren’t the possession-by-possession reality. The totality of his performance has been really rough.

    His individual numbers are better than those of Suggs, and he’s fourth among rookies in points at nearly 14 per game. He’s just not having nearly the same positive impact from a team perspective. Again, remember: The Rockets are not very good. He has an even bigger role from the guard spot than Suggs does offensively, being asked to be the primary scorer on the perimeter for an NBA team as a 19-year-old. The degree of difficulty is off the charts.

    Having said that, the Rockets are better when he’s not on the court. And it’s by a pretty substantial margin right now because he combines reckless inefficiency with not really having any idea what to do defensively in the Rockets’ scheme. His role is drastically larger than the players below him, and I think he deserves some latitude. That’s the reason I have ranked ahead of the next five, who you’ll notice all don’t occupy nearly the same role within their team’s potential success. But Green has really struggled so far both in terms of his own performance and his performance within the construct of the team.

    The numbers kind of speak for themselves on offense. Green is a scorer who hasn’t yet shot the ball efficiently. Much like Suggs, I’m not all that worried about that end long-term. That skill and production will come as he grows and matures. Unlike Suggs, though, Green has just been awful on defense, and it’s often due to lapses in effort and mistakes. That is the stuff that does need to change. His transition defense involves more olés than a matador tricking a bull with a cape. This play against the Grizzlies, for instance, is pretty indicative of his effort. Instead of trying to man up and stop the ball, he gives up position and goes for the strip, allowing Brooks to easily get to the rim.



    His tracking off-ball hasn’t been much better in terms of attention to detail and effort. How about this play against Phoenix this week, where he just completely lost focus, got caught ball-watching and, I guess … forgot? … that his man is Cam Johnson and that he needs to track him off the offensive rebound. Hot take: Leaving Cam Johnson wide open for 3 is bad.



    These are the kinds of things that worried me about Green coming into the draft, and they’re why I ranked him No. 4 on my board. If he’s not scoring at a high level, he’s not really helping his team by being out there. The good news? I’m still a believer that, long-term, he’s going to be an elite scorer. Those flashes I mentioned above? He’s shown enough of them to where I’d still take him in the top five if we did the draft over again today. A lot of this play likely comes from him being overextended a bit. But this isn’t a long-term list. This is based purely on performance this year, and much like Suggs, Green hasn’t been all that good so far.

    Next Five

    12. Austin Reaves, Los Angeles Lakers
    13. Ayo Dosunmu, Chicago Bulls
    14. Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Oklahoma City Thunder
    15. Dalano Banton, Toronto Raptors
    16. Bones Hyland, Denver Nuggets
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Nailed it 100% .

    DD
     
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  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Let's be honest here for a sec, the Rockets were so enamored with their second pick scorer that they forgot to replace the enforcer in PJ.
    They have again no real shooters outside of Gordon who has his own flaws.

    This is a clear disaster because of how little emphasis they did put on team structure.

    A scorer needs a lot more pieces around him, hence more work for the silent GM.
     
    DaDakota likes this.
  4. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Contributing Member

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    We ain’t got a scorer, tho
     
  5. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    This article basically says everything everyone that is not wearing "green glasses" has been saying. Green is literally useless unless he can score at an extremely high clip and effeciently. He also has a short wingspan for his height which probably means he will never be an effective defender which means everyone around him is going to have to be exceptional defenders. This is going to be a rough rebuild.
     
  6. Downtown Sniper

    Downtown Sniper Contributing Member

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    I wish I could fast forward in time to when it really was over.
     
    pippsux likes this.
  7. riko

    riko Member

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    Cam Thomas is a better natural scorer then Green. I
     
    NewAge and tycoonchip like this.
  8. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Imagine spending this much energy on someone not on the team. Good post though I suppose lol
     
    everyday eddie likes this.
  9. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    OMG the sky is falling over a 1 month rookie who isnt leading the ROY race lol. Green is on the worst team with the worst coach. This is going to take time.
     
    everyday eddie and roslolian like this.
  10. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    His height is 6'5/6'6 so when you say he has short wingspan for his height that doesnt really meam anything.

    Green's defense is nowhere near it needs to be but with his athleticism and his height as a big guard even if his wingspan isnt that long he can still be an effective defender. What he needs is just fill out his body and learn some fundamentals.

    Defense is more about mentality at the end of the day. Shane Battier, PJ Tucker and and Bruce Bowen arent exactly long limbed athletic freaks.
     
    Mr Woods and Joe Rocket like this.
  11. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    Shane battier = 6'11 wingspan
    Pj tucker was 6'11.5
    Bruce bowen=6'10 wingspan
    Rodman-7'4 wingspan
    Pippen-7'0 wingspan
    Jordan and kobe - 6'11 wingpsan
    Kawaii-7'3
    Paul george-6'11

    It absolutely means alot. Oh yeah mobley 7'4 wingspan.
    Guys with Green's sort of ratio/wingspan
    Ray allen Steph Curry Steve nash.... oh ya Michael Carter Williams. All defensive liabilities!
     
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  12. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    It's a good article because it nails it to the T!
    He's the number 2 pick on a team that has had plenty of opportunities to shine. He's been given the starting position and the ball. If we're talking about Sengun who has been limited in minutes under Theis and Wood it would be one thing.
    He should be Ja Morant out there but instead he's looking like a typical GenZ just full of excuses.
     
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  13. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Jordan? Kobe? Kawhi? You are comparing Green to some of the best defenders in NBA history obv he would look bad. How is Mobley's defense compared to Hakeem?

    Green doesnt have to be a lockdown defender he just needs to be below average to average which he will be after he grows some muscle mass and learns about the game more.

    Jordan Poole also has a 6'6 wingspan and he turned out ok after 3 yrs.
     
  14. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Morant spent 2 yrs in college and entered the league a year older than Green. If you want instant results you should look at guys like Chris Duarte.

    Everybody knew Green would be a project. Is he struggling more than expected? Of course, dude was a preseason contender for ROY. But at the same time because of his high potential and young age its dumb to be all over him like he is this major bust a couple of months after his debut. Guys like Jordan Poole and James Harden didnt exactly break out in their rookie year and they turned out fine.
     
  15. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    But but but, Green told us he thought he was the #1 guy coming out of the draft. He was supposed to dominate. What happened? What's happening? ;)
     
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  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    It's not that he isn't leading the ROY race, it's that he's the most detrimental player to his team in the league and the worst player on the worst team in the league.....despite laughable hype that he'd be coming out scoring 24 points per game as the next coming of Kobe or MJ.
     
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  17. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    It clever to read that article espouse results in a "team perspective" without diving into how poorly this team is constructed and coached .. just "this team is bad Green should be "better" due to more playing time" type of thoughts with no indications on how the other rookies get to hide behind proven veterans and better coaches.

    Now Mobley is hurt -- I guess I could just say I was right - I knew that these lanky, light in the pants players wouldnt make it in the NBA, but yet somehow Jalen Green gets beat up going to the rim repeatedly and he's still suiting up. Your best ability is availability! Score 1 for the Pro Green guys! :rolleyes:
     
  18. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    At least he is available to play. Doesnt matter how good you are if you already injured 1 month into your debut.
     
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  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    In his case, given how detrimental he is to the team, it would be better for the team if he wasn't available to play.
     
    Downtown Sniper likes this.
  20. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Right he's a 19 year old and still acts more mature than alot of you here.
     

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