1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Who is John Durham

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    21,196
    Likes Received:
    18,196
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    81,409
    Likes Received:
    121,787
  3. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    came here to post this...

    How Did So Much of the Media Get the Steele Dossier So Wrong?

    By Bill Grueskin

    Mr. Grueskin is a professor of professional practice and former academic dean at Columbia Journalism School. He has held senior editing positions at The Wall Street Journal, The Miami Herald and Bloomberg News.

    On Jan. 10, 2017, BuzzFeed News published a photo rendition of a 35-page memo titled “U.S. Presidential Election: Republican Candidate Donald Trump’s Activities in Russia and Compromising Relationship With the Kremlin.”

    Those who were online that evening remember the jolt. Yes, these were just allegations, but perhaps this was the Rosetta Stone of Trump corruption, touching everything from dodgy real estate negotiations to a sordid hotel-room tryst, all tied together by the president-elect’s obeisance to President Vladimir Putin of Russia.

    Sure, the memo provided little hard evidence or specific detail, but, BuzzFeed said, it had “circulated at the highest levels of the U.S. government” and had “acquired a kind of legendary status among journalists, lawmakers and intelligence officials.” This, along with tantalizing tidbits like “Source A confided” or “confirmed by Source E,” gave it a patina of authenticity, especially to those unaware that spycraft often involves chasing unverified information down dead ends. Any caveats — even BuzzFeed’s own opening description of the allegations as “explosive but unverified” — could be dismissed as a kind of obligatory cautiousness.

    That memo, soon to become known as the “Steele dossier” when a former British intelligence officer named Christopher Steele was publicly identified as its author, would inspire a slew of juicy, and often thinly sourced, articles and commentaries about Mr. Trump and Russia.


    Now it has been largely discredited by two federal investigations and the indictment of a key source, leaving journalists to reckon how, in the heat of competition, so many were taken in so easily because the dossier seemed to confirm what they already suspected.

    Many of the dossier’s allegations have turned out to be fictitious or, at best, unprovable. That wasn’t for want of trying by reporters from mainstream and progressive media outlets. Many journalists did show restraint. The New York Times’s Adam Goldman was asked by the Washington Post media critic Erik Wemple about two years ago how reporters should have approached an unverified rumor from the dossier. He responded, “By not publishing.”


    Others couldn’t wait to dive in.

    Two reporters in McClatchy’s Washington bureau, for example, wrote that the special counsel Robert Mueller had found evidence for one of the most tantalizing bits of the dossier, that Mr. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen secretly visited Prague during the 2016 campaign. That would have been a key link in the claim that he was there to coordinate campaign strategy with the Russians. It wasn’t true.

    Over time, the standards for proof diminished to the point that if something couldn’t be proved to be false, the assumption was that it was probably true. As MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow once put it: A number of the elements “remain neither verified nor proven false, but none so far have been publicly disproven.”


    The dossier’s credibility suffered a grievous blow in December 2019, when an investigation by the Department of Justice’s inspector general found that F.B.I. investigations “raised doubts about the reliability of some of Steele’s reports.” The F.B.I. “also assessed the possibility that Russia was funneling disinformation to Steele,” the report said, adding that “certain allegations were inaccurate or inconsistent with information gathered” by investigators.

    Then, this month, a primary source of Mr. Steele’s was arrested and charged with lying to the F.B.I. about how he obtained information that appeared in the dossier. Prosecutors say that the source, Igor Danchenko, did not, as The Wall Street Journal first reported, get his information from a self-proclaimed real estate partner of Mr. Trump’s. That prompted a statement promising further examination from The Journal and something far more significant from The Washington Post’s executive editor, Sally Buzbee. She took a step that is almost unheard-of: removing large chunks of erroneous articles from 2017 and 2019, as well as an offending video.

    <snip for character limit>

    The day after the dossier came out, Mr. Trump told reporters: “It’s all fake news. It’s phony stuff. It didn’t happen.” (Washington Post fact-checkers would eventually catalog more than 30,000 Trump falsehoods during his term in the White House.) When a well-known liar tells you that something is false, the instinct is to believe that it might well be true.

    The situation also became complicated because some reporters simply didn’t like or trust Mr. Trump or didn’t want to appear to be on his side. He had been berating journalists as charlatans while seeking their acclaim; calling on legislators to “open up our libel laws” to make it easier to sue news organizations; and launching personal attacks, especially on female reporters of color. In a perfect world, journalists would treat people they don’t like the same way they treat those they do like, but this is not a perfect world.



    But news organizations that uncritically amplified the Steele dossier ought to come to terms with their records, sooner or later. This is hard, but it’s not unprecedented. When The Miami Herald broke the news in 1987 that the Democratic presidential candidate Gary Hart was seeing a woman other than his wife, the paper followed that scoop with a 7,000-plus-word examination of its investigation, which showed significant flaws in how the paper surveilled its target.

    More than two decades ago, after New York Times articles identified a scientist at Los Alamos as being investigated for having a role in a spying scheme, which federal investigators were unable to substantiate, the paper ran both an extensive editors’ note and an article that included details about how its reporting had gone astray.

    Newsrooms that can muster an independent, thorough examination of how they handled the Steele dossier story will do their audience, and themselves, a big favor. They can also scrutinize whether, by focusing so heavily on the dossier, they helped distract public attention from Mr. Trump’s actual misconduct. Addressing the shortcomings over the dossier doesn’t mean ignoring the corruption and democracy-shattering conduct that the Trump administration pushed for four years. But it would mean coming to terms with our conduct and whatever collateral damage these errors have caused to our reputation.

    In the meantime, journalists could follow the advice I once got from Paul Steiger, who was the managing editor of The Journal when I was editing articles for the front page. Several of us went to his office one day, eager to publish a big scoop that he believed wasn’t rock solid. Mr. Steiger told us to do more reporting — and when we told him that we’d heard competitors’ footsteps, he responded, “Well, there are worse things in this world than getting beaten on a story.”


     
  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,711
    Likes Received:
    22,469
    OMG how many times are we going to have to keep setting the record straight on the GDamn Dossier???

    The media reported on it... AS A DOSSIER. If you are an idiot than maybe you don't know what a dossier is, and think that CNN is telling you everything in it is fact, but they are relying on you not being an idiot with the help of Google to understand what a Dossier is, and what is not.

    Following initial intelligence THE MEDIA actually did do it's job and uncovered alot of really REALLY damaging facts as did the Mueller report. None of which relied on the Dossier as it's source.

    See this story which was the product of actually good ole fashion investigative journalism following the lead on Trump's pee tape:

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics...l-isikoff-on-their-las-vegas-revelations.html

    That's the story of "The Dossier" right there.

    Then there is the story of the evidence like the Don Jr. meeting, and the Trump Tower Moscow letter of intent, or the other evidence in the Mueller report.... That actual evidence NOT RELYING ON DOSSIER RUMORS but actual evidence IS FREAKING HORRIBLE for Trump, and the Republicans that still kiss his a$$ to this day.

    Stop it with this "see the dossier the dossier the dossier" game. It's old, and it just makes you look like a right wing troll.
     
    No Worries, jiggyfly and fchowd0311 like this.
  5. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    is the editorial page of the NYTimes a right wing troll?
     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,711
    Likes Received:
    22,469
    100% there are right wing trolls that post editorials for the NYT. Bret Stephens..... or Glenn Greenwald... yeah... the guy tweeting up a storm in the past 48 hours in defense of Kyle Rittenhouse.

    Yeah... the NYT totally doesn't hire right wing trolls for their editorials at all.

    Op Ed's are not news dude. It's exactly the type of thing that is considered trolling.... or clickbait. It's not news.
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    I always enjoy how some will lambast the NYT as being a leftist rag that shouldn’t be trusted and then post op-Eds from them as gospel.
     
  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    55,794
    Likes Received:
    55,868
    The writer of that op-ed was an editor at the Wall Street Journal. Is the WSJ editorial page right wing? You bet it is.

    btw, you really seem to struggle with the difference between op-ed and articles.
     
    adoo and dmoneybangbang like this.
  9. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    so you're saying this guy is a rightwing troll, click bait artist?

    "Mr. Grueskin is a professor of professional practice and former academic dean at Columbia Journalism School. He has held senior editing positions at The Wall Street Journal, The Miami Herald and Bloomberg News."
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,555
    Likes Received:
    14,291
    Did he dispute the Mueller findings? Did he dispute the bipartisan senate investigation in 2016/russia?

    We are saying he is posting his opinion in the Opinion section of the NYT..... not in the news section.
     
    dobro1229 likes this.
  11. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    did you read the oped? because he brings up Mueller.

    and you will be hearing more about Mueller
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,555
    Likes Received:
    14,291
    Spoooooky…..

    did they find the evidence that Trump deleted per the Mueller report?
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  13. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    evidence that trump deleted
    what?
     
  14. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,555
    Likes Received:
    14,291
  15. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
  16. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,555
    Likes Received:
    14,291
    An actual new article instead of a nutter op-ed…. Weird.
     
    NewRoxFan likes this.
  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,711
    Likes Received:
    22,469
    What exactly do you think “Op” in “OPEd” stands for?
     
    dmoneybangbang and NewRoxFan like this.
  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,916
    Another Dossier story which is completely incoherent but hits all the Maga buzzwords.

    The Steele Dossier was humorous at best, irrelevant at worst.

    It was never evidence for anything. Whether it was true or false, its sourcing credible or not, doesn't ****ing matter.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    81,409
    Likes Received:
    121,787
  20. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,815
    Likes Received:
    7,963
    "To be clear, multiple US government inquiries uncovered dozens of contacts between Trump campaign
    associates and Russians, which have since been acknowledged.

    The candidate himself and his closest advisers even welcomed the Kremlin's interference in the election.

    Looking at the big picture, Steele was right that Russia used "trusted agents of influence" to target Trump's inner circle.
    And he was correct to suspect there were secret contacts between Trump aides and Russian officials, even though Trump denied any Russian ties. "​
     
    #440 adoo, Nov 19, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021

Share This Page