You don't think bringing an armed rifle carried with two hands ready to shoot is not provoking violence? Even when national guardsman or police stand guard or patrol, they do not have their arms in a ready fire position. In the second scenario - this situation has happened: I've said this before - our laws don't really cover these situations well. Clearly people have a right to guard their homes. But do they have a right to point weapons as passerbys? If someone is pointing a gun at you are you suppose to wait until they shoot or is that a credible threat. If someone is pointing a gun at me, that is certainly a hostile act and a threat of violence. If I am trained and armed with a weapon, it may be in my interested to open fire first before they do and kill me.
He wasn't a shop owner. And he was not protecting his business. That was his original excuse for going there with an assault rifle, to defend a business (supposedly). If he would have stayed at the business (standing on the roof with other armed people) three people would not have been shot and two people would not have been killed.
The St. Louis couple is different. They're pointing at people. We need to be more educated about gun laws, especially because SCOTUS is 99% about to say that everyone in this country has a right to carry a gun on their person, not just in their home. There are subtle differences between peaceful carrying and non-peaceful carrying, and the law will allow for the former.
If he isn’t actually pointing it at people and he isn’t verbally or physically threatening people, no I don’t think that qualifies as provocation in any legal sense. People looking for reasons to be provoked (like Rosenbaum) will find them. But it appears to me that he wasn’t looking to shoot anyone except as a defensive measure. Him returning to Rosenbaum after he shot him and calling his friend in a panic over it is indicative of that. For people annoyed that this guy is being turned into a hero by the Right, I share that feeling. But the Left portraying him as a murderer or someone eager to shoot people only encourages people on the Right to portray him as a hero, rather than what he was (a foolish kid who was in over his head).
That’s a fair point. Just trying to understand where people think the line should be drawn. Standing on a roof — legitimate. Standing in front of a store or in a car lot — not legitimate?
Its pretty obvious they didn't SEE him shoot Rosenbaum - its some others that say "he just shot someone". I think had they seen that happen , they wouldn't have got involved because they know he will shoot. The skateboard alone isn't the issue - its multiple people , being attacked , worried they will disarm you and possibly shoot you or beat the snot out of you. The one guy jump kicked him in the head , Skateboard guy wasn't shot in the head , he was shot in the stomach while he had his hand on the barrel of the gun attempting to pull it away. Its very clear in the video. Bottom line , those people who attacked him did not believe he would pull the trigger - If they did , NO WAY they do what they did , its suicide , no two ways about it. Ask yourself - if you think he'll shoot , what the hell are you going to do ? You gonna run up and hit him with a skateboard ? Hell no , you are gonna GTFO , you didn't live to be an old man being stupid. You'll get no argument from me on this ....
Well none of what we are discussing matters legally, but I disagree they should know he is acting in self-defense. There is now way to know that given you have an unarmed man on the ground shot 4 times and a dude walking around unscathed with a rifle. They went after him - why? I don't know. Were they afraid of him shooting them - they had to be - he shot someone already. Maybe they thought they could disarm him and be the hero - I don't know. Was Rittenhouse's life in danger? Depends on what you mean by that. Certainly there's a likelihood of him getting "beat up", but being killed? Doubtful but not impossible. How much risk should one draw the line at? I just don't think definite statements can be made here, which is why I think the smartest route is to say, hey, guns shouldn't be allowed at protests - sanctioned or otherwise - unless you are on your property defending against looting.
Yes, in this case, if he stayed with the others then three people would not have been shot and two people would not have been killed. So yes, it would seem to have made a big difference. But was he simply standing in front of the building?
From what I read, the incident started while he was in a car lot, I presume in order to prevent the cars in the lot from being vandalized by protesters. Edit: From the Wikipedia article on what happened to start the chain of events: Protesters were recorded on video pushing a burning dumpster through a crowd, towards a gas station. A guard, dressed in similar clothing to Rittenhouse – a green shirt, cap, and bag – put out the dumpster fire, which enraged Rosenbaum, who shouted at the guard. More arson took place and was recorded on video. Rittenhouse was then seen running with a fire extinguisher. According to Rittenhouse's defense attorneys, what was not recorded on video was that he used it to put out one of the fires, which provoked a confrontation by Rosenbaum, who mistook Rittenhouse for the guard who had put out the dumpster fire earlier.[41][42] First major confrontation The beginning of the first confrontation between Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum was witnessed by McGinniss to whom it seemed that Rosenbaum and other protesters were moving toward Rittenhouse, who was trying to evade them; Rosenbaum then tried to "engage" Rittenhouse, but Rittenhouse managed to avoid this by sidestepping and running away.[9][43] FBI infraredfootage taken from an overhead airplane captured the shooting of Rosenbaum and the events immediately preceding it.[44][45]
I believe that was his original excuse... he was going to some business to protect its cars from vandalism. And that he joined others armed people who were standing on the roof. Its clear though he didn't stay with them. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html
What he did was not smart - he shouldn’t have the firearm to begin with considering his lack of age, experience and common sense tactics ..I have multiple A.R. 15’s including the one in my avatar picture (I use to target shoot tons, less frequent now) and guess what? they pretty much stay in my closet in a safe and I don’t plan on using it for anything besides target practice with the unlikely exception for home defense…. I have kids older than him and I would never condone them being there as well - but having said that once he was in that situation, and the hostility and threats he faced it became self defense …In hindsight he should’ve never been there it was a powder keg mess and a volatile area - it’s just asking for trouble especially when he didn’t have the age requirement to carry or had any vested personal or business related interest. I regret there was 2 people that made bad choices as well and ended up dead , I regret there was a guy that had a chunk of his bicep blown off. Every life matters and 2020/2021 Needs to be a lesson learned. There’s been too many civilian deaths on both sides of the political spectrum and We really need to stop it and find some thing that pulls us together as people because we’re really not that different
When this is over I wonder how much Rittenhouse will get for the defamation suits against all the media outlets that called him a domestic terrorist.
I wasn't aware of any media outlets that did that. It would be interesting to see clips and read the stories where media outlets called him a domestic terrorist. Do you have any links?
That’s true one of them was scum but still I do believe every life is precious in most cases, Maybe not so much with that one example if he was a pedo - agree
So not only is the Fix in but Now we wanna pay him for the service? WOW! Only in America Rocket River The Complexion for the Protection . . .
Dude watch the fbi surveillance footage, this case is as open and shut as they come, there is no need to racialize this.
They cannot help themselves, without the racecard, they have nothing to dine on, gotta keep themselves fed.
