The organization, especially the coach, should never though...never come out and criticize a supposed franchise player in the way that they have. That crap is nuts, saying "I don't know if he's a championship pointguard" or whatever it was Doc said shouldn't just be tossed aside. Not even Lebron would deal with that, no player would, you keep that behind doors, you don't just say that to some reporter asking questions like its some throwaway comment. If you're Ben and hear that, if I'm Ben and I hear that, I immediately want out...because why be there if you don't believe I can win rings? Why keep me then? Sounds like we're both wasting time. Imagine you're in a relationship with a girl and you've been dating her and you think it's serious and it's long term, lets say 3 years and suddenly, just as an aside material she goes in front of you and some of her friends "Not sure if he's marriage material..." how would you take that? I think Ben is reacting appropriately to what was said. If they don't believe they can win a ring with him...then move him, don't waste each other's time.
Therein lies the difference: the player you're using as an example, LeBron, wouldn't even let it get to that point. Transcendent players--actual transcendent players--wouldn't have accepted the status quo year in, year out, and be okay with it. You think if Ben had shown improvement over the course of his career this whole situation would still exist? Rivers' comments was unprofessional that I can agree with but it was just the final nail in a coffin that Simmons has been building for the past few years by not seeing that he needed to bring more to the table. Instead of taking reactionary measures because he perceives himself to be a transcendent star that can't be criticized like a LeBron maybe he should have upped his game as a preventative measure so criticisms like this wouldn't even exist. Brett Brown tried the closed door approach with him and that didn't work out too well:
That's the only point to me, after what Doc said it shouldn't be a surprise that Ben wants out. After seeing what other players have done to get out of their teams it shouldn't then be a surprise that Ben is going the same route. I think we are past the point where any side will give in so Ben just digging deeper on his not playing stance is not a surprise to me. If he wants to be traded then playing hurts that cause for both team and player.
Maybe not. 76ers Unmoved By Indiana's Ability To Offer Malcolm Brogdon, Caris LeVert For Ben Simmons The Indiana Pacers have been a team with legitimate interest in trading for Ben Simmons, though they haven't frequently been mentioned in the conversation publicly. The Pacers have "consistently registered interest" in trading for Simmons. The 76ers, however, have been unmoved by Indiana's package built around Malcolm Brogdon and Caris LeVert for Simmons. The 76ers continue to seek a trade for Damian Lillard.
He keeps playing these games and he'll have to end up calling Sam Presti to absorb Simmons' contract in exchange for Lou Dort, Josh Giddey, and Derrick Favors.
Brogdon's ceiling is lower than Simmons' ceiling, but Brogdon's floor is like, so much higher. At this point, I don't think Simmons will ever reach his ceiling. FWIW Brogdon is 28. Thought he was like 25-26. I'd also have Brogdon over Simmons, at this point. No ego and is fairly consistent. Would be more than willing to defer to Embiid so that there's no power struggle.
He fills a need the Sixers have if/when Simmons is officially off of the team: 1. Primary ball handler who doesn't turn over the ball all that much, can hit a 3 point shot and is pretty automatic from the FT line. 2. His defense isn't as touted as Simmons' but it's still pretty good. At 6-5 Brogdon's not a small guy either. I think Morey is trying to extract more picks out of this Indiana trade. I would too if the other player coming back is LeVert because both LeVert and Brogdon aren't exactly iron men in terms of health. That being said, Morey has to realize no one is going to give him a 2nd or 3rd tier star right now for Simmons and, in the long run, it's better to get players/pieces that can help your team now than to play the waiting game. Trade Simmons to Indy, bring Brogdon and LeVert to Philly and give them time to gel with their new teammates Embiid Harris Thybulle/Green Curry/LeVert Brogdon/Maxey Is a more balanced team.
Not saying that Doc should have said what he said in public. But Phil Jackson did that kind of things all the time and people hailed him as the Zen Master. (I am not a fan of either coach.) We don't really know what have been done behind the scene. Maybe they already have tried to push Simmons to work on his game in private for a long time and he just wouldn't listen. What we do know is that none of his teammates speak up to defend him. And don't forget that both Morey and Doc had been staunchly defending Simmons earlier when he was criticized of his shooting issue by the public.
Doc thought playing the "I'm gonna challenge you publicly to light a fire under your ass" card was the one to play and lost. Most likely he didn't know Ben was so weak.
That's one way to look at it. And if that's how we look at it, I would compare it to two folks trying to have a baby together a bunch of times and and then having a miscarriage and then mother in law in the heat of the moment says she fears the daughter-in-law is infertile to mutual friends, when the real reason is the couple is just not into each other and the sex sucks, but father-in-law (Maury) doesn't care and wants his grandkid. Lol. Did I take your analogy too far? The other way to look at it is this is just business and bringing up feelings when millions of dollars are on the line just looks silly. Superstars win championships per Maury's dogma and so he, understandingly, wants to wait for a better package.
I think he crossed a line that I never remember Phil crossing. If Phil ever said "Can't win rings with Kobe," my guess is Kobe would have bolted. Challenging a player is one thing, condemning them as a losing player in public? That's another. He should have followed up his statement "What I mean to say is we can absolutely win a championship with Ben but I don't think that position, point guard, is what works best for this team...we'll figure it out." And his teammates not backing him up? That's worse. Do you see a pro sports teammate publically criticize another teammate for their failures? Embiid's not off the hook either with his shade disses, that stuff is embarrassing. Harden had issues with Dwight never once did he make them public...and the organization had issues with Dwight too, never made it public. In fact, the situation is quite similar as it was clear you weren't winning much giving it down low to Dwight...but Dwight insisted on that being the plan. You never heard players talking about it to the public. And we see now too because all of this that the organization have done has lowered his value to make him untradeable. There's a reason the Rockets act like John Wall is the best mentor and teammate of all time and that's to make it seem like he has some value. Honestly the 6ers made it worse along the way when it could have just been a disgruntled player they had to deal with. If it's clear that the teammates don't want him around, coach doesn't think he can win with him, then why should he just swallow that and want to be around there too?
I don't know if its fair to call it weak or this or that, you do have to handle players differently, just like in a managerial role you just can't treat everyone under you exactly the same and expect the same results. I mean we see this with KPJ right and other players the Rockets have rehabbed. Phil knew this. He treated Rodman differently than he treated everyone else and the Bulls were better for it.
I'm not begruding Morey for waiting for what he feels is the best package. At the end of the day what we hear are just rumors and for all we know Morey is sitting on an amazing deal with some team we know nothing about and all the leaks are just competitive offers. I think by now Morey has a deal he really likes and is just holding out to see if he can get more from this or that other team. Also as much as we want to take emotion out of business decisions, that's just hard to do. I think Philly will be emotional about it by not giving him (Ben) what he wants. I see so many people say Philly should just tank his career...wouldn't that be an emotional response? I mean we'll see what they do in the end. If I were a Philly fan I'd trust that Morey will get something good for him and that the only reason he isn't traded is because Morey wants to milk as much as he can from whatever possible teams he's dealing with. Rocket fans should know anyway that whatever the media leaks is often far from the deal that happens when it comes to Morey.
it’s weak, plain and simple. If your coach is questioning whether or not you’re a championship caliber point guard and your reaction during the off-season is to cut off contact with said coach and the entire organization and then proceed to basically end your tenure there because, rather than face the criticism head on and do some self reflection, you’re weak or , at best, acting like a petulant child. Again, focusing on Rivers’ comment as the reason why Simmons is wanting off the team is being short sighted. This has been building for years with “this” being the need for Simmons to expand his game beyond what he showed during his rookie season. He basically got his max contract and decided “I’m good, fam.” and don’t care about doing anything more to improve his game.
It wasn't just criticism. Saying "He needs to shoot better" is criticism. Saying "He's not a championship player" is an insult. He's literally saying he can't win with him.
which is pretty much true…? If he was a championship player we wouldn’t even have this discussion. He got called out because he was one of their franchise players. If Simmons can’t handle the pressure and criticism that comes with being a franchise player then maybe he should stop acting like he deserves that kind of treatment. Joel Embiid played with one knee against the Hawks for God’s sake and actually delivered.
That's true of a lot of players that's never won and you don't see any of their coaches or teammates say that. It crossed a line, it was more than just criticism. Like I said, great coaches know you don't treat every player the same. Yall bring up Phil but he didn't treat every player the same way. Guys react differently and Phil still never came out and pubically said he can't win with this or that player. If at work your boss tells you you can't even do your job then you'd be wondering why you're even there too. If he left it up to what Ben could improve on then it would have been criticism but just basically telling someone they suck isn't criticism. Simmons has made it to the NBA and being one of its best players, if he was as weak as you claim he would have never made it this far...but Doc and organization crossed a line, all those sneak disses and then saying you can't win a championship with him...I understand why a guy would want out of that situation.
I'm not saying that the Sixers have been handling it right. They obviously have not, otherwise they would have traded him already. But if I had to distribute blame on this mess, I'd put 70% on Simmons, 15% on Rich Paul, and 15% on the Sixers organization. I mentioned teammates because it says a lot about how Simmons behaved behind closed door. If none of your teammates is backing you up, then you have to look into the mirror and ask yourself what's really going on. You sound like Simmons is the victim. He made the bed. Now he is sleeping in it. BTW. comparing Simmons to Kobe is clearly wrong. Kobe won a championship in his 4th season at age 21. Simmons after 4 season at age 25 has gone AWOL in a playoffs series.
your assumption is that the coaching staff never talked to him privately throughout the season to let him know what to do to improve his game or ways to help out the team. As for “all those sneak disses” send me a link or YouTube video where doc and/or the coaching staff did that during the season. Chances are you will have a hard time finding any because they gave him nothing but positive feedback and even defended him publicly. What did they get in return? A guy that clearly didn’t care about trying to improve to help himself and, more importantly, his team. As for the boss analogy that would never happen to me because 1. I’m damn good at my job and 2. Because I’m open to critiques from my boss and my colleagues on how I can improve and 3. I take those criticisms and actually learn from them. If Simmons would have stuck with an actual shooting coach over having Rich Paul kicking out said coach in favor of Ben’s brother then things might have been different but that’s just another example of him being weak minded or just don’t give a damn.
