Would you trade John Wall & 3 - 4 1st rounders for Ben Simmons?

Did Wall go on yet?

 

Even without Simmons, I'm looking forward to Theis/Garuba anchoring the defense.

So it's all good whatever happens.

 

I heard a podcast where it was stated the Rockets do have some on the staff that like Simmons as a potential Rocket, however they are not going to overpay to move Wall. They believe in time an opportunity will present itself that makes sense.

I'm not sure why they shipped WB out for Wall like they did but it felt rushed to me. I think Stone may realize that trade was a mistake. Maybe Tillman wanted him out ASAP, maybe they believed Wall would be good enough to keep them competitive with Wood, who knows. But in hindsight they could have let WB sit and wait for a great offer. I'm not saying they'll get a ton of great players for Wall but they could maneuver to get some pieces that will help the rebuild not hurt it.

 

I think it's part of the culture shift with Stone. He's basically willing to work with players, especially veterans, to make sure they feel they are not getting screwed. Hindsight it was a great decision because Westbrook would have likely kept us in playoff contention and we would of likely conveyed that pick to OKC.

 

It certainly feels like a little luck has fallen our way in spite of desperate, back to back trades for extremely overpaid point guards. Wall's expiring contract may end up being a positive asset since it seems like he is willing to sit this season and gamble on himself next. I think patience is in order for us as we will have stiff competition for Simmons and a low ball offer isn't realistic for a win now team. Frankly, I'd rather probe around Mikal Bridges and Miles Bridges.

I think this is the perfect season to remain the dreaded "flexible" while we turn the keys over to the youth moment, while having a predatory eye towards acquiring a Mikal Bridges type player.

 

TMI man.

But why am I not surprised?

 

And just as a general point of comparison between Ben Simmons and Mikal Bridges: Simmons WAR went from 9.2 his rookie season to 6.0 presently and Bridges went from 2.9 his rookie season to 8 presently. Bridges would be harder to acquire, but the point is there is some big game out there outside from Simmons.

 

That's brave of you to discuss your inner desires.

 

It was a chaotic time. Morey bolted. Both Harden and Westbrook wanted out. Stone took over the mess.

The absolute top priority was dealing with the Harden situation, finding an acceptable deal. The Westbrook thing was kind of a distraction and I don't blame Stone for wanting to just have it done.

 

While using you as a sock puppet?

I'm no ventriloquist.

LOL

 

I really don't know what the chances are of it happening, seems to be a lot of smoke, I have not been following NBA rumors lately...but if the Rockets were to get Ben Simmons around a Wall centered deal I think I'd start thinking of putting Stone's statue somewhere around the stadium.

COMPLETELY flawed player, we all know that, but still has a lot of value to a team. One of the best defenders in the NBA and if some team manages to get him to shoot (I know, a lot to ask) you're easily talking about a perennial all-star player.

All this talk about "Rebuilding" doesn't mean you turn down all-star talent that's...25. The whole purpose of rebuilding is to acquire young all-star talent and if you want to build a true contending team you MUST take a risk here and there in doing so. Not doing so means waiting 5 years to MAYBE be good enough to make the playoffs.

And depending on the trade it might not even be that big of a risk, I guess for some that value playing the lottery year after year it's a risk but Ben Simmons I think easily makes you better now.

KPJ-Green-Simmons-Sengun-Wood I think that's a damn fine launching point. Hell, you tell me 3 of these guys are all-stars 2022-23 and I wouldn't be able to guess which 3...

Why would this lineup work? Because everyone on the floor, outside of Simmons, can shoot. Defensively going to have issues, Simmons is the only plus defender, but we're talking about a young starting 5 that has the average age of 22.

Of course this depends on what the actual trade is, of course you don't trade the farm for him, but Simmons is definitely an all-star caliber player that can get even better. If he wants to or not, I don't know, but the team is so young that you can mold it to hide his flaws and he can still be an integral part of a team.

 

No I don’t wanna

 

I never wanted WB to being with so I'm not complaining, I'm just stating I think Stone/Tillman learn a valuable lesson to be more patient. It was also a different time. Now that the organization has faced the facts of a rebuild they are more equipped to let things play out.

 

I concur completely. This time no reason to trade just to make it all go away. I felt they could have been a little more patient on WB so what if it was a month of distraction. Anyways ancient history, I just don't really want Ben and trading picks with Wall. If Ben was a career 73% free throw shooter fine but he'll never see 65% unless he goes to Rick Barry school of free throwing. I did bury him in a game of horse.

 

I know a lot of posters who are against the trade wanted us to tank for at least one more season to get another high pick next year. Personally I don't care that much about the timing of tanking. Intentional tanking works only occasionally. The draft is pretty much a crap shoot.

Last season, we unintentionally became the worst team due to the injuries of Wood and Wall. And we got lucky to get some very good picks in a deep draft. The team won't be very good this season with so many young and new players whether we have Simmons or not. We have a group of promising young guys to work with. I am optimistic about the team's future.

My main concern is Simmons the player and his contract. IMO, his lack of shooting is not as bad as his attitude. There are plenty of players who can't shoot a lick but are still very valuable. But those players don't see themselves as entitled stars who dictate how they play and demand "respect." If Simmons is willing to play the "rich man's Capela" role, I would be all for having him. But it does not look likely he will.

Character means a lot. (See my sig.) Bad attitude results in unfulfilled potentials. We have seen countless wasted talents throughout NBA history. The Rockets got burned more than a few times. After four seasons, Simmons looks very much like one of those wasted talents. That together with his huge contract make it a risky gamble. Do we want to be Philly v.2.0 a year from now? That very conceivably can happen. And it's a risk I am not willing to take with a high price. Wall for Simmons straight up, maybe a heavily protected future FRP or two, is pretty much all that I am willing to pay.

 

I like this and this is very honest to me. When making ANY decision I think you have to start with honesty and not narratives or wishes.

I was very upset when we traded for Brodie because I had seen him since he was a rookie. To me it was written in STONE what he was. I liked him personally and knew he played with heart. I had hoped that Beard would curtail his worst demons but alas they did not and we all knew that from jump. What did he change this season, not a damn thing. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

 

I completely agree with this.

While Philly has some blame here, some of the thigns said from the coach is just unacceptable to go saying in a public setting for instance...Simmons seems immature as hell.

I'm personally cool with the risk, depending on the trade. If it's 4 first rounds...unless those are HEAVILY protected like top 25 protected or something, no way....but if the price is right I think you do it. I like the idea of having a starting 5 with the average age of 22 and just going on from there. Doesn't mean we have to keep Ben but I do think he's at the very worst easier to flip than Wall ever would be.

I'm just open to the idea of having him I guess. Of course, it all depends on the trade. IF the trade meant gutting our young roster or sending away too many valuable picks, then of course not, but if it looks like it's a 3 team deal and the Rockets are essentially swapping Wall for Simmons, sign me up for that.

 

I don't disagree with what you've said here - and absolutely Simmons makes the current team better.

What I think you have to weigh here is what your potential is in the multiple scenario's that are possible and which offers you the most long term probability of success.

The idea here is Wall & 3-4 picks for Simmons.

Lets think about how that affects everything else - your salary cap now and beyond.
How it takes away the ability to make a big trade later having used both your cap space and your draft picks.
And last but certainly not least , how it affects this years draft position ..... As currently constructed you are a bottom 5 record , what are you with Simmons ? A play in team or a contender ? Is it worth the trade off ?


I think at best you are a play in team with Simmons and that to me just isn't worth all the potential you give up , particularly in the 2023 offseason where letting Wall & EG simply expire nets you a whopping $60 million in cap space to use in FA or a S&T along with bird rights on Wood , KPJ & Tate plus having just drafted another top 8 pick.

Making the trade for Simmons exhausts not only a large percentage of your cap space but also your draft assets that you no longer have to make those deals for a superstar.

We're coming up on a turning point in the league with most of its big name stars on the tail end of their respective careers - Lebron , KD , Harden , Curry , CP3 , Kawhi , PG13 and many others closer to the end and .... The landscape of the NBA will take a dramatic turn sooner than later.

That cap space is significant in the grand scheme because these star players want to play together and create their super teams - the franchise is primed to take advantage of that in terms of both assets available to make trades & caps space to accommodate star salary.


Yeah , Simmons makes you better the question is how much better and is it worth giving up the alternative potential.

 

I am not willing to get Simmons until I see Wood play forward full-time, or before I see the development of Tate, Garuba, Sengun, and KJM.

We might already have what we need.