Would it be too un-PC for Delta's competitors to capitalize on this? "We need to fight this Delta variant together. A United front is the best way to do so" "Delta is not going away and, as such, we need to embark on a new Frontier of doing what's right--wearing masks and getting vaccinated" "Overcoming Delta requires not only togetherness but also a fighting Spirit"
Not peer reviewed yet but make sense. Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19. The study demonstrates the power of the human immune system, but infectious disease experts emphasized that this vaccine and others for COVID-19 nonetheless remain highly protective against severe disease and death. And they caution that intentional infection among unvaccinated people would be extremely risky. “What we don’t want people to say is: ‘All right, I should go out and get infected, I should have an infection party.’” says Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at Rockefeller University who researches the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and was not involved in the study. “Because somebody could die.” The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and then received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated. The research impresses Nussenzweig and other scientists who have reviewed a preprint of the results, posted yesterday on medRxiv. “It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,” says Charlotte Thålin, a physician and immunology researcher at Danderyd Hospital and the Karolinska Institute who studies the immune responses to SARS-CoV-2. “To my knowledge, it’s the first time [this] has really been shown in the context of COVID-19.” Still, Thålin and other researchers stress that deliberate infection among unvaccinated people would put them at significant risk of severe disease and death, or the lingering, significant symptoms of what has been dubbed Long Covid. The study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. COVID-19 has already killed more than 4 million people worldwide and there are concerns that Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants are deadlier than the original virus. “The differences are huge,” says Thålin, although she cautions that the numbers for infections and other events analyzed for the comparisons were “small.” For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2. No one in the study who got a new SARS-CoV-2 infection died—which prevented a comparison of death rates but is a clear sign that vaccines still offer a formidable shield against serious disease, even if not as good as natural immunity. Moreover, natural immunity is far from perfect. Although reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 are rare, and often asymptomatic or mild, they can be severe. In another analysis, the researchers compared more than 14,000 people who had a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and were still unvaccinated with an equivalent number of previously infected people who subsequently received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The team found that the unvaccinated group was twice as likely to be reinfected as the singly vaccinated. “The biggest limitation in the study is that testing [for SARS-CoV-2 infection] is still a voluntary thing—it’s not part of the study design.” That means, she says, that comparisons could be confounded if, for example, previously infected people who developed mild symptoms were less likely to get tested than vaccinated people, perhaps because they think they are immune.
Old study, but I just heard of it: Covid-19 Alters Gray Matter Volume in the Brain, New Study Finds https://research.gatech.edu/covid-19-alters-gray-matter-volume-brain-new-study-finds
He starts the discussion of the data at 5:30 The delta variant makes it 45% more likely that you will end up at the ER or need hospitalization. Breaking that out further the hospitalization rate was 122% higher. In the vaccinated group they found NO DIFFERENCE between delta and alpha variants for ER visits or hospitalization, but they said they needed more data to confirm that. This data was consistent with recent Scottish data as well.
The immune system seems like it is working well against covid and the B and T cells important for long term defense against covid seem to be working well against variants. It appears that if you are infected then you will potentially have immunity for decades.
I feel like we are seeing a lot of people get covid twice though, immunity as in less severe future infections?
So, I posed a question a few weeks back... for someone with satisfactory health - would it be more effective to simply be exposed to Covid as opposed to getting a 3rd booster? I guess we just don't know yet.
My good friend who was in excellent health, personal trainer, no underlying conditions, was exposed to COVID and died 3 weeks later. My overweight, mediocre health, brother in law was exposed a few weeks ago, and is seemingly recovered. He did have a regeneron infusion. Both were unvaccinated. It's a coin flip that leans towards survival, but, personally, I'd rather not take that chance.
Sorry to hear about your friend. And no question about it - the vaccine is the best first line of defense. A must if you care about your health and feel a responsibility towards others. I am not suggesting otherwise. The early data suggests your two friends probably wouldn't have even required treatment of any kind if they were vaccinated. I'm asking if exposure is more effective compared to a 3rd booster. And more and more and more after it.
It will be interesting to see that data when it comes out. I posted another video from a doctor earlier in this thread breaking down boosters and what their purpose would be. It was a bit technical but I thought it explained things well. Basically if you are not immunocompromised and under 65 then a booster shot likely does very little for you. If you are a front line worker and simply can’t run any risk of being exposed to potential covid infection then yes it will recharge your antibodies in order to help prevent any possible infection. However, it won’t have any change to your T cell and memory B cell response. Those are like the blueprints and factories for your immune system. They seem to have robust responses in fully vaccinated people. The covid antibodies created by those 2 have finite lifespans and their numbers die off over 6-12 months if you aren’t exposed to covid. The doctor in the video also proposed that monoclonal antibodies might be a valid solution for people that know they are going to be working around people sick with covid. This would help to maintain antibody levels and avoid side effects from the vaccine shots since those side effects can create downtime of a couple days. Also, we need new vaccines that target the delta spike protein. Giving your body a booster of the same spike protein a few months after the first round of vaccine shots doesn’t seem to do much for helping to fight delta. From my understanding it is because it is just showing your body how to fight alpha and “wild type” covid and not delta which is prevalent. I can repost that video if you want to watch. It’s about 25 min long.
I think I understand. You are hypothetically asking is it better for a vaccinated person to contract COVID than it would be to receive booster(s)?
Exactly. I re-read what I wrote. The only refence I made to already being vaccinated was subtle. I could have made that easier, lulz.
I have a feeling the 3rd booster is going to be less important to avg population if the study above holds up, and eventually a high percentage of the population gets immunity either naturally or by vaccine. With that said, I could see it being a regular thing (regular vaccine based on mutation like flu season), the thing that still concerns me w/ covid is the asymptomatic spread and not having easy accurate detection at home. I guess what still bothers me a lot is the casual talk/blame on people that don't stay home when they don't know they're even sick (and this goes for people with the vaccine/without it) , this isn't like a normal infection in some people - ie I have a fever and am contagious so I'll stay home, I have seen it personally wreck some people and other people don't get more than allergy symptoms/if anything all while giving it to others. Obviously this is still a new topic so depending on long term immunity/more studies/crazy mutation I might change my thoughts. I still have plenty of time on the 3rd booster rollout time line, but if I were in the high risk category/currently at the time line per cdc, I'd probably just get the 3rd booster.
I kind of look at it like this though, when I get the flu vaccine a little late some seasons and know the formula/prediction model was off, I still think getting a small immune response is worth it to keep it working/learning - ie use it or lose it. I definitely agree with you though, if Delta continues to do its thing and doesn't mutate out/everyone has some kind of exposure then an alteration for delta is going to be needed sooner than later.
I feel that it is a myth that getting vaccinated is "for the good of everyone." I'm all for getting vaccinated, and I think people should get vaccinated, but it's a dangerous myth that it's helping others. You're still able to infect others at almost the same rate. You're still possibly contributing to variants (science is out on that), and some studies suggest maybe more so. And if you're taking five times the risk you were pre-vaccine, and the vaccine only decreases your chance of contracting covid by half, you're doing society a disservice. This is in no way a condemnation of the vaccine. It's a condemnation of the rhetoric around the vaccine. People need to be educated better instead of just thinking the vaccine ends this and that those that aren't vaccinated are morons. You're gambling with your health by not getting vaccinated, and not much more or less.
