Poll: Scottie Barns v Jalen Suggs - the real 4th pick

Barnes had a big game today in SL, looked pretty good - 23pts, 5reb, 4assists, 2 blocks and a steal. Though he almost gave the game away with a really stupid turnover with a couple of seconds left.

Personally, I'd have gone with Suggs because he's more of a finished product, but I think there's a lot to like about Barnes and they'll be just fine with either choice. In 5 years both will be very solid NBA players.

 

Barns

 

Depends on the type of Barn.

Spoiler

Either way, Barns because size.

 

I trust Toronto's player development and scouting. Barnes has more talent than Pascal, we were thinking Pascal was going to take over for Kawhi that one year, lol

I dont trust Orlando at all. Suggs might be stuck there for awhile. Suggs is very good, but does he have that one in a generation talent to rescue Orlando from themselves?

 

Not much on the Barnes train. I don’t think he’ll be any more than a role player at best. At first I thought the raps with losing Lowry would be gifted Suggs as his replacement for the future. But the raps already have FVV so I can see how they feel ok with him moving forward and wanted a Barnes type player to pair with him. Especially with siakim potentially on the move sometime in the near future. Big fan of Suggs, so I obviously would have went with him personally

 

The real 4th pick should have been Mobley actually, Suggs 3rd and Barnes somewhere after Sengun....

 

suggs, green, cade, sengun, barnes, mobley

 

Tor def made the right call, people on the Suggs hype train are just basing it on his college performance cuz Suggs has sucked so far in SL, extremely inefficient and just outright chucking shots to get his nos. FVV is only 27 and the Raps just paid him the max last year why the hell are they gonna draft his replacement?

There are more good pgs than money available in the NBA right now if you have capspace you can sign a good pg like devonte graham, ball, schroeder etc. It aint a position of need anymore in fact Raps have their own good pg so it makes sense to get Barnes. Plus being 6'9/6'10 forward with ball handling skills Barnes is just rarer to find than Suggs.

 

I have Suggs but Barnes could definitely be terrifying if he develops a consistent shot at his size and skill set.

Not sure about the final numbers, but I believe Suggs has just as good or better SL numbers so far.

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Scottie-Barnes/Summary/119506

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Jalen-Suggs/Summary/117344

But again, none of this will matter long term. This draft seems loaded, we'll see what these rookies become.

 

Suggs for me.

 

Barnes had slight higher offensive rating and Suggs had slight higher def rating. Their PER were mostly identical around 1-2 pts diff.

You are right SL doesnt really matter and both look good. But if they are equal in performance then Barnes is better cuz he is 6'9 while Suggs is 6'3.5.

 

Toss up.

Close call barring injury.

 

I feel pretty strongly that the Raptors made a huge blunder and that Suggs is going to be a much better NBA player than Barnes.

 

They made the right call on Barnes.

Toronto did not fall for the hype when it came to Suggs. They've got a pretty solid back court with potential; VanVleet, Dragic (for now), Trent Jr., and Flynn.

Suggs had the lower floor but Barnes has the highest ceiling and could, one day, become a Giannis type athlete.

 

I can respect that opinion, and if all things are equal and they develop the same way I agree, Barnes is a rarer talent.

But the key is how they develop and mental strength, which usually seperates good from great in this league. Of which I have Suggs as better than Barnes at the moment and also a better leader.

I don't really value the Ortg or Drtg because a lot of that is team lineup and roster based, for example Suggs was better in both than Barnes in college, but had a stacked Gonzaga team. His advanced stats in college are pretty much better as well.

One thing to keep in mind, the 6'3.5 guy outrebounded the 6'9 guy in SL/College, is also a two way player and is a better shooter at the moment, meaningless numbers but Suggs has a Jason Kidd comp. Who was a terrific rebounder for a guard and has a football background as a tough defender.

At his best Barnes could be Giannis lite, he's not as big 6'8 or 6'9 to Giannis 6'11, not as athletic and lighter at the moment to Giannis 242+ lbs.

He could possibly grow taller and gain wieght true and Giannis lite is a hell of a player. Toronto is excellent for player development, so he will likely be a beast.

We'll see what happens, I think they'll both be excellent barring injury or major changes, and the system built around them.

 

I think you are overrating the mental strength and leadership of Suggs just based on what he showed in college. First of all we havent seen Suggs and Barnes suffer thru some sort of tradegy or injury so how you know how kentally tough they really are? Thats not something you see on the court thats something you observe by closely monitoring their daily life we dont know what they are off the court.

In terms of leadership, Suggs at the end of the day is a 19 yr old rookie. He may be a leader in college, but he wont be a leader in his NBA team day 1, esp with guys like Cole Anthony and Markelle Fultz already there. He'll be asked to hand towels, carry kid lunchboxes and a pink backpack etc. He wont be leading NBA vets rather his job is to absorb lessons from these vets so he can become a better player. So that leadership is a moot point at least for now.

I just posted the Ortng and Drtng to show both players were roughly equal in terms of performance, in real life though Barnes has a much higher upside than Suggs because he is 6'9 and can guard guys 1-5. Suggs can guard 2, maybe 3 positions at most. Barnes just has higher upside on defense. Suggs wasnt that great a shooter over Barnes as per their SL performance like I said they were roughly equal. I didnt follow Suggs closely but he had that 22 pts on 22 shots his first game, while he put up nos he wasnt crazy efficient.

Like I said both will be good players and tbh I think either of them could be no 1 in weaker drafts. Like would you take flaky ass Edwards or Suggs no 1? But for me if they are roughly equal given how many good pgs there are in the NBA I prefer Barnes because what we've seen in the NBA the top players are 6'8/6'9 wings and not really pgs. Current group of best players are Lebron/KD/Kawhi/Giannis. The next gen projected best players are Tatum/Luka/Zion. Ja Morant and Trae Young really arent in the mix.

 

Having watched basketball and players develop for years as well as other things you start to see common threads in successful players. No one is perfect, professional scouts and GMs get it wrong every year so I may be absolutely wrong of course. Hell, a random first or second rounder may turn out to be the best player like Jokic you never know.

But I go by scouting, interviews, work ethic and how the players respond under pressure. Suggs hit game winners and made big plays in the NCAA tournament which takes mental strength under pressure, was known as a leader for Gonzaga and you can see his bloodlines. Barnes didn't do nearly as well under pressure in the tournament.

Personal life
Suggs has two younger sisters. Their father, Larry, is the second cousin of NFL player Terrell Suggs, a two-time Super Bowl champion.[29] Suggs is also a cousin of Eddie Jones, a three-time NBA All-Star.[28] Suggs is currently dating Louisville Cardinals women's basketball star Hailey Van Lith. He has several other cousins that have played NCAA Division I basketball.[30]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalen_Suggs

So his family, cousins and girlfriend are all top flight athletes or pro league all stars. One of the reasons I thought KJ Martin, a high school player picked deep in the second round would be decent was his interviews and bloodlines.

Barnes has solid interviews to his credit but he doesn't come across as the leader Suggs is. Here's an example:





Who comes across like an NBA veteran and leader?

Not just these single interviews of course, but Suggs has a trend of showing these traits. But from what they have shown as very young players, Suggs has come across as mentally stronger based on what we've seen.

Again, it's very early and I think Barnes has a real height advantage so I may be totally wrong and that's okay.

 

Suggs thuggs all day

 

I understand where you are coming off but at the end of the day these are 2 rookies and 2 19 yr olds.

A good leader usually starts out by being a good follower, as MJ once said the reason he can reach so high is cuz he stood on the shoulders of giants. So while being a leader is great and all at this stage of their career I don't think that should be their focus, their focus right now should be on improving their individual skills because at the end of the day that's what they are judged on. Cp3 is a better leader than KD, Harden and Kawhi but we all know who are the superstars in that group.

In terms of hitting the last shot, yeah Suggs hit great shots and he def has that clutch gene. But hitting clutch shots is just one aspect of being a great player, you wouldn't trust Giannis with that last shot at the end of the game but he is still one of the best players in the world. They have different positions and roles hitting clutch shots is vital for a playmaking backcourt pg but is not that critical for a do it all 6'9 Giannis-lite clone IMO. I mean Giannis already won b2b MVP when his fts and shooting were wack.

I agree with you both will be really good. But like I said unless Barnes busts I doubt Tor regrets their decision given the sheer amount of good pgs available. Like it would prob take Suggs to be a HOF level player and Barnes to just max out to be role player for Tor to feel regret cuz tbh their current pg FVF is also very good and just signed a max deal recently.