Plus just on the surface level Cade can create for others thats why he is a pg. Middleton prob has a better shot though. Middleton is 6'7 maybe thats where the Cade comparisons come in they have the same physical profile.
Ultimately I leave it to Stone, he deserves it for correctly identifying KPJ, Tate, kmart jr and even Wood, whom other teams didnt go aggresively after in FA. But from outside looking in if we arent getting Cade I'd rather have Green than Mobley, and tbh I'd rather trade down and grab 5 and 8 for 2 than trade up. I like Moody and Scottie Barnes a lot, from overall impact they could end up better thab Green just cuz of how blessed they are physically.
If it were me, I would just let Detroit pick who they are going to pick and we take whoever is left at the 2 spot between Green and Cade. The fact is we already have KPJ and he's shown some high level scoring ability. Regardless of which player we grab we will have a super young and super talented backcourt AND an upcoming modern big in Wood. I would prefer Cade just for his clutch gene and his floor general/playmaking(although his team couldn't hit shots in oklahoma) but I don't think the difference between the two is THAT vast to necessitate trading up unless the price is relatively low(a 2nd round pick or maybe a pick swap like our future Detroit pick with another team's future pick if Detroit wants to free up some trade options for themselves). We have to take the opportunity to build depth ASAP in the draft (especially while we are still saddled with Wall and Gordon's contracts) so we can't be affording to give away much because no FA will sign with us right now so we have to build via the draft.
Well at least I admire your stubbornness to defend a bad take in the face of being embarrassingly wrong. Hats off to you, sir!
I think even the his most staunch critic can see that "cant handle the ball" is a narrative. Willing rebounder. He competes on D and is not a complete liability like KPJ for example. He's been attacked from some strange angles. Talent eval and player devo is something that I hope Stone excels at. Some GMs bust on drafts more than others and I hope Stone has that knack for finding gems and handling risk. You're right it turns into a crap shoot at times with the hype machines that follow these players.
I wouldn't be shocked if the Cavs end up at 3 and pick Barnes. Like I wouldn't bet on it, but if they are at 3 with Mobley and Barnes, they might go Barnes given they have Allen (who obviously isn't the prospect Mobley is, but Barnes would be best fit and isn't that far behind Mobley prospect wise).
I believe Allen is a RFA at $7+M qualifying offer. But I'm told Wood and Mobley can work.....so hey, why not Allen and Mobley? At least Allen weighs somewhere around 238 pounds (compared to Woods 215) [ just a FWIW ]
Cleveland is reportedly OK with giving Allen a 100M extension! (I like the guy, but wow is all I can say)
i've been very pro green but now i hope we trade for cade just so i don't have to see the Mobley vs Green threads for the next decade.
this is the FIBA U-19 Gold Medal game…Tyrese Haliburton, Suggs, Cade, Green, Scottie Barnes, and Mobley were on this team Cade finished with 21, 7, and 7, but 8 turnovers Suggs had 15, 4, and 5 Haliburton had 6, 4, and 8 Jalen Green had 1, 0, and 1 in 17 minutes Barnes had 11, 8, and 3 Mobley was injured and didn’t play overall Cade averaged 12, 5, and 6, and Green averaged 10, 2, and 1
For giggles I ran Cade's stats from his rookie year looking for college basketball comparisons in previous years: Cade and his comparisons The stats I used (3PT%, APG, ToPG, PPG, Freshman status) got me: Trae Young Antoine Davis RJ Cole Markell Fultz OJ Mayo Looking deeper in to the numbers the closest comparison would be OJ Mayo: 1. Mayo and Cunningham's 3PA are more in line than the others (6.5 attempts per game vs 5.7) as well as their 3PT% (40.9% for OJ vs 40%) 2. Of that list only OJ averaged more turnovers than assists (3.5 ToPG to 3.3 APG), close to what Cade averaged (4.0 ToPG vs 3.5) 3. Hell even their PPG were eerily close (20.7 for OJ, 20.1 for Cade) 4. Both shot 46% from inside the 3PT line 5. It would be easy to use Fultz as a comparison because he DID go 1st in the draft but Markelle's FT% was abysmal in college and FT% is usually a barometer scouts look at to determine if a player will have trouble shooting the ball in the NBA. That said, I'm not down on Cade at all (more specifically, I don't really have a feeling one way or another with Cade, Mobley, Green) because: 1. Size. Everyone on that short list is...well shorter than Cade (6'8") with the tallest being OJ at 6'4". At Cade's size it should be relatively easier for him to adjust to the NBA in terms of scoring vs Fultz, Young or Mayo. Which also means 2. Unknown. Outside of statistical comparisons Cunningham really don't have an equal that came out of college. I don't want to compare him to Luka because it's an apples to oranges comparison (Professional Euro league vs. college). 3. Today's NBA. OJ Mayo was not a bad player at all. Didn't meet the hype/expectations, sure, but Mayo had a decent NBA career, averaging, 18ppg on 44/38/88 shooting splits as a rookie. If he were, say, 5 inches taller he probably would have dominated back in 2008 or if he were playing in today's NBA he probably would have fared better. I'd be ecstatic if we got Cade and he put up the same numbers OJ did. 4. Defense. Cade is a much more heralded defender than any of those guys on that list so, at worst, he should be a plus defender while working out any rookie offensive kinks next season.
Not that it matters that much: edit: notable players from the roster? RJ Hampton, James Wiseman, Scottie Barnes, Jalen Johnson, Evan Mobley, Jalen Suggs (Where was Cade that year??? no cap serious question)
If Moody falls to 15 or so Stone should consider moving up to get him. A 6'6 wing with a long wingspan and can really shoot it is exactly the type of guy that Stone should be looking for.
For Green I guess the only thing that scares me is he could easily be another D-Wade or just as easily be Nick Young (swaggy P) or Gerald Green.. Whereas the general consensus for Cade is he is a sure fire star no matter what as long as he stays healthy. Such a tough position for the Rockets front office. I say you just let Detroit pick who they want and we get whoever drops to 2. Get who you get and hope Green or Cade turn into their highest potential.
Yeah, he's a RFA. I mean, its not like Cleveland gave up a ton to get him, so i get the move. But this is part of the exact reason why the Rockets didn't want him. He's going to be looking for like $20 per probably. To the extent Wood + Mobley made some sense it was one offense, one defense. Allen + Mobley... not as enthused by personally..
For Jalen Green, looking at G League stats (Games Played, PPG, FG%, 3PA, 3PT%), you have: James Young Malik Beasley Thomas Bryant Jaylen Nowell Naz Reid Sekou Doumbouya Out of that list, only Young was a high ranking high school recruit (8th) which is still not exactly being ranked 1st in the nation like Green was. While I take G-League stats and competition with a grain of salt it's also worth noting that the "It's the G-League! Anyone can put up those stats!" theory is kind of false based on the data I was able to pull on NBA.com. The reason why I put Games Played as a criteria is to remove those 1-2 game appearances that would have made the data "less valuable". Playing 15 games in the G-League in lieu of college experience might mean less to some on here but it's still experience against guys with the same end game (getting to the NBA) as guys in college. For apples to oranges comparison sake, I put in Green's stats used above to look up college players putting up similar numbers but now factoring in TS% (Green's was 61.3% in the G League) and there's only four names that are closest to Green's since 1997: Kevin Martin Steph Curry Jared Brownridge Ronnie McCollum If we're going to project Green's offensive prowess to the four players above and who actually got drafted, hoping for him to be as offensively elite as Curry is improbable but a floor/baseline of Martin isn't all that bad.
This just tells me that he's looking at the stats and not watching the games. Cade's size (6'8" 220) and numbers (20.1/6.2/3.6) might look like that of a wing, but he's a natural #1 creator, and has always been a floor general first and foremost (10.5 apg/36 in his Senior Year at HS). Even if he watched OSU games, he'd see that he spent the first 30+ minutes getting his weak supporting cast involved, and only really stepped on the gas down the stretch, where he led the NCAA in clutch scoring by a huge margin (106 pts, 2nd place guy had 63). I'm not saying he has to play PG, because with his versatility, he can play 1-3 or wherever you need him. But at his size/skillset, he's going to become the #1 on-ball creator sooner or later, and isn't going to be just a complementary wing. I'm willing to bet his APG numbers are going to much higher than they were at OSU.
